topic Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec in Speakers and Displays

Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effective or Ineffective? (any product)

rickjforbes — Thu, 23 May 2024 21:14:02 GMT

Dear Google Community,

I am posting here for completeness, to solicit help from any community member that may have better access to higher support and to gauge other users experiences of Google's direct product support experience.
I want to firstly say that in any organisation there a good, bad and average individuals and it is possible to have a good experience of a bad company and vice versa, however my assertions here can be backed up by a large volume of evidence which I have been filing meticulously for exactly 2 years now. I have previously kept my interaction with Google support private, but repeated failures have drawn me here. My assertion is that Google agents quickly run out of ineffective troubleshooting steps that don't help all but the most basic user and that:
1) Google have released software after software that has caused previously functioning technology to break completely OR work in a less desirable manner since roughly Spring 2022
2) This applies across a wide range of their products but in particular is centred around the hardware control (and controlled) by the Google Home app and the Google Assistant (via voice command)
After exchanging over a thousand emails, days worth of chat and days worth of phone calls with Google agents, I can empirically demonstrate that when issues occur these have been the broad steps followed consistently by representatives of the company and it looks like this.
1) The user notices the problem and gathers evidence of an issue and articulates it to a Google Support agent
2) The user is asked to go through (sometimes repetitive or irrelevant) troubleshooting steps, in all but the simplest cases these steps will fail. It will often be obvious to a reasonably technically savvy user that there is little chance of success
3) The steps could well be quite "involved" taking large amounts of time, and get increasingly demanding.
4a) Often they will culminate with an unreasonable request, either something so massive as toi be reasonable (delete all devices from home structure, reset all devices etc) OR be impractical even with unlimited time (try using your Nest/Speaker/Thermostat device on a different WiFi network, try using a different mobile phone for the app
4b) They will repeat troubleshooting steps you have already completed, you may feel like you have entered a loop and may start copy/pasting yourself from previous answers provided
4c) In some cases it will seem like the information you have provided has not even been looked at, and you will feel increasingly that the steps you are taking are a waste of your time and the agents time
5) They will gather serial numbers and software versions manually, even when you have elected to enable permission for the agent to access your home structure OR you inform them that auto-update is present. In no case will there be a follow up about this information
6) They will eventually have to take the conversation offline and "Escalate" to "Higher Support" or a "Specialist Department"
7) This escalation will be ineffective and one of 3 things will then happen (or a combination of them)
7a) You will never hear from them again, and if you follow up you will be told (in a variety of different ways) to wait/bear with them...OR
7b) You will eventually get a repetitive or irrelevant troubleshooting steps to go through again (note this will happen even if there has been no new software release for the app or the product, meaning it would be impossible for a previously tried and unsuccessful set of steps to be successful (all other things being equal) -this can sometimes happen with a new agent stepping in and apologising for the previous agent, but this just puts you back to step #2
7c) If 90 days passes they close the case (without telling you)
7d) Other agents cannot access the previous case and will tell you when you raise it that they "must" go through the troubleshooting steps again (e,g I have twice rebuilt 2 large home structures from scratch)
7e) (Rarely) You will receive a reply saying it is a known issue and engineers are working on it
😎In all cases the issue never resolves without a massive intervention that must be pressed for by yourself (device swap/refund etc) this decreases exponentially in likeliness if you are out of warranty.

For example today I received this note, after following up on no responses for 60 days from Google's engineers, this case details many of the outstanding issues I have varying in complexity across a range of products (i.e multiple engineers) and yet the agent (who is also always polite) is happy to confess;

"Hello Richard,

Thanks for reaching out to the Google Nest Customer Care Team.

Sadly, there's no update yet and I have already reached each every person I know who can help but I cannot get any update as well as a turn around time. The only guarantee I can give you is that the case is still being worked on with the engineering team."

In my case I have dozens of issues outstanding across Nest Speakers, Thermostats, Cameras, Chromecasts, Wifi...ALL of them used to work, NONE of them have resolved, and I have sent well over 1000 emails back and forth with Google agents, racked up days and days of support chat and many more hours in phone calls. This is of course on top of the information compiling detailed explanations of the problem in the first place, and going through laborious and ineffective troubleshooting, repeating steps taken previously despite protestations.
I must emphasise that on NOT ONE OCCASION has troubleshooting solved an issue and on NOT ONE occasion have Google followed up an escalation to the higher team that has ended in resolution of the case/issue. I will even go further and say that on some occasions the troubleshooting steps have in turn caused further issues, which are then conveniently ignored by the agent, or they try and pass off as another department's problem, even though the issue originated as a direct result of the Google agents action (for example for my speaker group issue, I was advised to redo my voice match, first deleting my existing one..this is despite me articulating that the command is recognised on screen flawlessly, it is the execution of the command that is the problem..I went ahead and now I cannot use voice match on my phone, and this is yet another case for which I have been passed around with no resolution.
I have over 30GB of video documenting issues, demonstrating me following ineffective troubleshooting and of course..like veryone I have "sent feedback" via the devices (on one particularly humorous one, I needed to recite a 19 digit alphanumeric error code everytime I had an issue with the snooze feature on my alarm not working --I want to snooze, not spring to life to inform your troubleshooting department) and that's before I mention the world's shortest timeout on pauses when you explain your feedback to the assistant, if you dare even pause for breath while trying to "feedback" the nature of the problem lest you get the "thanks! I'll pass that to my makers" with no opportunity to edit...it's almost as if they don't even want to allow you the catharsis of having a rant.)

I will caveat the above and say that I am a reasonably advanced user and in some cases for folk who haven't done the basics correct, there may be some use. My point is that whether you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in advance OR you go through serviced troubleshooting, there are far too many issues that hit the deadends I say in point #7 above and it is a knowing waste of users time especially for established/published known issues.

A typical company used to servicing customers would have overflows in place to catch exceptional issues such as the problems I am having which leads me to one of only two possible conclusions:
1) My issues are NOT exceptional and this is a common experience
2) Google systemically simply do not care how much time a customer expends trying to solve problems, regardless of product-set and are happy to indefinitely roll issues on without proactively offering any alternative.

If any community support agent here believes they may be able to get cut through for my cases I am happy to provide the case IDs, but I will say that I have been repeatedly promised the same.

I haven't changed my devices for over 2 years now and this suite of issues has halted my previously continued investment in Google branded kit. All I want is for the stuff I paid for to work like it did when I bought it, or at least it to work as advertised in the Google Product pages.
If you have a way of escalating cases beyond this woefully ineffective contact operation I would dearly love to hear about it, but after all this time and the weight of evidence I have assembled I suspect this post will go the same way, archived and disregarded.

Does this resonate with you, hit me some kudos or reply below. Google are big but there are definitely more of us
Community Support Agents, you do a noble job but this systemic problem cannot have escaped your notice, please help if you can

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

aperezdeleon — Fri, 24 May 2024 17:38:38 GMT

Hey rickjforbes,

Thank you for reaching out on the community, I'm sorry for the experience that you've been having.

It's not clear from your post the specific issues you're experiencing with your devices, so I'm limited in the additional troubleshooting I can provide if you've already been in contact with support. However, I'd be happy to take a look at your Case IDs and check in with the team. Do you mind replying with those?

Thank you.

Regards,
Angel.

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

cphm2000 — Fri, 24 May 2024 18:59:05 GMT

I had a similar experience re my nest audio speaker...chatted with Google, went through all the steps,. Bricked.. out of warranty. Sent to higher support only to be told my option was to buy a new one..funny, it worked the day before and then nothing, no lights, nothing

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Fri, 24 May 2024 19:10:34 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon thanks for replying.

If you have alternative pathways to resolution that the support agents do not, then this is your chance to shine. I must emphasise that NONE of these cases are resolved and I am in a cycle of following up and receiving emails like these:

1)

I received this note from Google Support today, it has taken me a long time to get to this point, but I am still open to highlighting this problem to as many people as I can

The case IDs I have are varied, the problem with Google is ecosystem-wide, this is extra problematic as the care teams are siloed (for example I was repeatedly passed back and forth between the speakers team and the camera team over the camera functionality on my Nest Hub Max's.

The case ID list I have are as follows:

Case ID #	Date Raised	Date of Most Recent Action Takenby Google*	Count of Emails Exchanged (4th April 2023)	Agents
1-3592000033064	22/10/2022 (by me)	24/03/2023	102 Email Messages	Ric, Bien
1-9241000033987	28/03/2023 (by Google)	29/10/2023	72 Email Messages	Bien, Brent, Rey
8-3714000034534	30/10/2023	31/10/2023	2 emails	Ajay
3-6236000035177	3/11/2023	10/3/2023	Chat Session 1.5 hours, with a further 64 emails in follow up	Fausto, Sunny, Blass, Angelo, Admaris
8-9508000034949	8/11/2023	8/11/2023	Chat Session 1hr 45 mins	Jayvee
6-3565000035534	15/11/2023	15/11/2023	Chat Session 2 hours and 38 mins	Sunny, Jamie
1-1073000035545	6/2/2024	None	Chat Session 1hr 20 mins	Jacquelyn
9-3577000035839	6/2/24	13/2/24	Chat Session 2 hours and then 21 emails in follow up	BEN
2-9365000036030	8/3/2024	10/3/2024	3 emails	Admaris
2-0369000036400	20/2/2024	18/3/24	Chat Session 50 mins and then 62 further emails	Nap (Napoloeon)
4-7127000035709	18/3/2024	31/3/2024	Chat Session 1hr 50 mins then 12 follow up emails	Renz, Mario
5-1160000036242	04/04/2023	TBC	Phone Call 35 Mins and 12 emails so far	Renz, Johnrey
7-4482000036359	25/2/2024		Phone call then 15 emails	Melvs
4-7541000036296	The issues in this case first came about during diagnosis of case 3-6236000035177, but functionality then worked again,as the other cases are lying dormant I thought I would directly address this to the Camera department as the Hub/Display Department said it was not their issue (the product is a camera WITHIN a display) I decided to raise this directly on 6/2/24 before submission of this evidence	6/4/24	9.5 hour chat and 7 emails (to date)	Amit 15 minutes > Dave 2 hrs 50 mins Jennifer 30 mins > Dave 2hrs 15 mins > Bispasha 14 minutes Dwayne 1 hour 20 minutes > MADHUR 21 minutes > Jeanne 2 hrs 35 mins Total 9.5 hours chat + 2 emails so far in follow up
4-1926000034940	14/05/2024 (Raised by Google)	14/05/24	2	Maggie (an unclear follow up from an unspecified previous/outstanding case)

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Fri, 24 May 2024 19:17:50 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon,

Further to my earlier reply, here is a quick text summary of the 5 primary issues, I sent this to Nap (Napoloean) and another high level support agent Mario who was apparently trying to look at my cases (without success) under case ID: 2-0369000036400

The pattern is always the same, pointless troubleshooting, and escalation, someone then claims to be taking a look at my case, and then I get asked to explain what is wrong again, like starting from scratch even though the history is there

Nap,

If it would be easier for you for me to talk you through this again, feel free to give me a call, or send me a link to a chat session. I think this email chain has lost sight of the objective.
I had explained that my frustration with Google was going through loops and Google not taking into account information I had sent them and asking me to do repetitive steps.

My current situation:
1) Speaker Groups do not work (leaving Google Chromecast Audio unused, this has been a fault for over 14 months according to Google, with no specified resolution date
1a) During the course of attempting resolution, Google were aware that they had long standing issues with speaker group control via voice, yet have exchanged a series of diagnostic steps with me
1b) During the course of diagnosis, Google advised me to retrain voice match, this has generated an issue where the handset in my house responds at teh same time as the home speakers, the functionality of the ecosystem is supposed to prioritise the home speakers. The user has had to disable the voice match on the mobile device to circumvent this problem

1b i) Google have been provided with video/media evidence showing that the functionality to switch on the voice match on teh mobile handset is not functioning as expected/directed and the user cannot switch this function on, Google have been informed of this on 8 separate occasions
2) Snooze function on alarms remains malfunctioning, Google claim this is a recent deprecation, however this is not supported by online literature regarding recent deprecations, nor the correct product instructions, this remains a fault and unexpected behaviour for the product, this issue was first reported to Google in October 2022
3) Wrong device answering, remains an issue, significant sending of "wrong device" feedback and adjustment (where applicable) of "Hey Google" functionality has not remedied this problem

4) Control of other devices remains erratic, such as example given when controlling TV, with fast forward/rewind working, but attempting to pause eliciting a response of "there's nothing playing right now"

5) The Nest thermostat is not detecting location of phone correctly, and is therefore not shutting down when I am out of the house, I have supplied a video demonstrating how the app permissions are correct (as they should be upon setup), Google advised me to set the same app permissions, I advised them to recheck the video
5b) I have suggested that the errors in the phone location could also account for the phone answering "Hey Google" commands when located at the Home address, this has not been investigated by Google

At no point has Google claimed that these features shoudl not work (except the false claim around alarm snoozing deprecation, as per point #2

The user has undergone extensive re setup during diagnosis to resolve issues reported to Google, despite significant intervention, not one of the original reported issues has been resolved, or has been given a clear resolution timeframe, and indeed several new issues have been created during the diagnosis process that are now added to the problem list.
I wish to understand what the next steps are from Google is respect of each of these issues, or if Google wish to offer me compensation in respect of the lack of resolution.
If we have exhausted ideas with yourself, please could I ask that this is escalated.
I wish to continue this same case with a new team, rather than starting from scratch explaining related issues

Thanks

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Fri, 24 May 2024 19:27:16 GMT

Hi cphm2000,
Unfortunately with me, Google have never had this option, I own multiple devices of the same type and the faults have always developed in line with software updates made by the company, and across multiple devices. This makes it very challenging to claim that the device has developed a fault. The reason this is interesting in law is that as you say, without functioning software the devices are a brick, and since they DID work, and Google update the software and then there is an issue, this amounts to a negligence breach of contract. Over enough users this amounts to very "active" harm, especially when there is no pathway to repair/fix as shown in my screenshots below. I have empirically demonstrated over a number of products and a more than fair amount of time that Google are simply not interesting in fixing problems THEY have created, and they do not seem to be saying that the features are being removed (certainly not the ones I am asking about, some of which are fundamental to the product)
This goes beyond bad service, everyone understand that stuff messes up, it's what you do next that makes or breaks your reputation, in Google's case my experience is that whilst they admit there is a bug. there is no pathway to remedy (look at my 3rd screenshot in the post below)

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

aperezdeleon — Fri, 24 May 2024 23:20:19 GMT

Thank you for replying with all of this, rickjforbes. It's very helpful. I have some folks looking into the situation. However, it might take a little bit to review everything. I wanted to ensure you knew we were looking into it and don't assume a lapse in communication as we go into the weekend.

Thanks for your patience.

Regards,
Angel.

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Sat, 25 May 2024 15:15:24 GMT

It's been 18 months..i can wait a weekend

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Tue, 28 May 2024 09:39:57 GMT

Just an update.

One case that has been dormant since 16th May with me chasing as last trouble shooting steps were related to something else has resurrected itself by asking me to authorise that I am the account holder. 12 days..no contact and over a month of emails exchanged, but NOW you needed to check I am able to click a button in my email. Case 6-9894000035922

an agent called @Gagandeep and another called Isaac who called me and offered to send another device. I refused since the issue is software related and have not heard back.

Great. Progress. 🙄

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Wed, 29 May 2024 12:33:41 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon

It's now Wednesday after the weekend and no response.
So far I am just getting more of the same from the cases I have open with Google Support. They have admitted the fault lies with Google, yet are not committing to a fix or offering anything is respect of reasonable alternative.

Please can you advise where your investigations are at?

Richard

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Thu, 30 May 2024 15:40:49 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon

I haven't had any response yet here, can you confirm whether or not you are still engaged with this issue?

Thanks

Richard

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

aperezdeleon — Thu, 30 May 2024 23:17:10 GMT

Hi there rickjforbes,

Just a quick update.

To give you a peek at what's going on right now, we're taking a closer look at your cases. As you've already noticed, we have a team working on them.

My team has acknowledged this, and we're looking into further resolutions. While I'm not directly involved with your cases, I'll keep an eye on how the process is going.

I'll provide you with any updates as soon as they become available.

Regards,

Angel.

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Fri, 31 May 2024 10:30:39 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon

As I have a number of cases (as shown in the table) open with Google, can you be more specific about which ones have now had your intervention as I haven't heard anything back on most of them.

One case ID is actively corresponding with me 5-1160000036242

I haven't yet made contact with any agent who has an overall CUSTOMER view of the various product issues. The departments in Google Support seem silo'd. For example, Napoloen made me retrain voice match on my phone (Google Pixel 6 Pro) and this broke the function on the phone, which now requires support from phone team. The issues I have with my screens/cameras are connected to the Nest app which resides on my phone. The speaker group issue includes my Chromecasts. My Nest Thermostat issues are connected with location settings/software/servers.

At the moment the team are suggesting sending alternative speakers out to me, however they have not articulated why on earth all the speakers would be faulty at one time, it makes very little sense that these are a hardware issue and not a software issue. I say this because many users also have these problems, they occurred at the same time following a software update.

I think it would be useful to have someone who understands the products across the full Google ecosystem looking at these issues.

Please can you confirm which of the following cases your team are looking at?

Case ID #	Date Raised	Date of Most Recent Action Takenby Google*	Count of Emails Exchanged (4th April 2023)	Agents
1-3592000033064	22/10/2022 (by me)	24/03/2023	102 Email Messages	Ric, Bien
1-9241000033987	28/03/2023 (by Google)	29/10/2023	72 Email Messages	Bien, Brent, Rey
8-3714000034534	30/10/2023	31/10/2023	2 emails	Ajay
3-6236000035177	3/11/2023	10/3/2023	Chat Session 1.5 hours, with a further 64 emails in follow up	Fausto, Sunny, Blass, Angelo, Admaris
8-9508000034949	8/11/2023	8/11/2023	Chat Session 1hr 45 mins	Jayvee
6-3565000035534	15/11/2023	15/11/2023	Chat Session 2 hours and 38 mins	Sunny, Jamie
1-1073000035545	6/2/2024	None	Chat Session 1hr 20 mins	Jacquelyn
9-3577000035839	6/2/24	13/2/24	Chat Session 2 hours and then 21 emails in follow up	BEN
2-9365000036030	8/3/2024	10/3/2024	3 emails	Admaris
2-0369000036400	20/2/2024	18/3/24	Chat Session 50 mins and then 62 further emails	Nap (Napoloeon)
4-7127000035709	18/3/2024	31/3/2024	Chat Session 1hr 50 mins then 12 follow up emails	Renz, Mario
5-1160000036242	04/04/2023	TBC	Phone Call 35 Mins and 12 emails so far	Renz, Johnrey
7-4482000036359	25/2/2024		Phone call then 15 emails	Melvs
4-7541000036296	The issues in this case first came about during diagnosis of case 3-6236000035177, but functionality then worked again,as the other cases are lying dormant I thought I would directly address this to the Camera department as the Hub/Display Department said it was not their issue (the product is a camera WITHIN a display) I decided to raise this directly on 6/2/24 before submission of this evidence	6/4/24	9.5 hour chat and 7 emails (to date)	Amit 15 minutes > Dave 2 hrs 50 mins Jennifer 30 mins > Dave 2hrs 15 mins > Bispasha 14 minutes Dwayne 1 hour 20 minutes > MADHUR 21 minutes > Jeanne 2 hrs 35 mins Total 9.5 hours chat + 2 emails so far in follow up
4-1926000034940	14/05/2024 (Raised by Google)	14/05/24	2	Maggie (an unclear follow up from an unspecified previous/outstanding case)

xxx

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Tue, 04 Jun 2024 10:31:50 GMT

Hi Angel @aperezdeleon

I'm afraid it's still all quiet over here, I haven't heard back which cases are being looked at, and after a flurry of activity last week, I agreed to an action (replacement of some devices --even though it is a software issue caused by a firmware update) and everything has gone quiet.
It's not good enough to reply and say things are happening, we need things to actually happen.
Any chance you can let me know what is going on here?
I will send another follow up via email as well

Richard

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Tue, 11 Jun 2024 17:53:17 GMT

Hi Angel @aperezdeleon

I'm afraid I still don't know which cases you are referring to. I did briefly hear from some agents who made a fair bit of noise about getting to the bottom of these issues. They made a couple of suggestions I hd agreed to over a week ago (Thursday 30th May ..12 days ago) and I haven't heard anything since. No additional steps taken

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Wed, 12 Jun 2024 15:08:59 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon

Is this just a completely dead thread now? I came here hoping to make progress and it seems like the "form" is similar to that I have experienced via the contact channels.
This thread is going the same way I described in the original post. Unresponded. No progress

No response from any agent since 30th May

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Thu, 20 Jun 2024 23:12:12 GMT

@aperezdeleon

Still.no reply or response from your side.

This thread is just me talking to myself...very much like my support experience

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Wed, 03 Jul 2024 19:34:32 GMT

Hi @aperezdeleon

Still no answer from.you on this nor any response from Google agents via email.

Shocking really when you consider the count of my issues.

Are you literally ignoring me and hoping I will go away.

My next step will be to file litigation.

It's not too late to resolve this before I do, but I have spent too much money on this kit to just let you all ignore me

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Sat, 06 Jul 2024 13:06:24 GMT

I have still had NO resolution here to any issues and I am forced to keep chasing Google for updates.

Worst support I have ever experienced in 44 years and I include Cowboy builders in that.

There is still always an opportunity to change things

Richard

Re: Your "Higher Support" "Engineer" or "Escalation" Experience: Effec

rickjforbes — Sat, 06 Jul 2024 13:07:51 GMT

Still nothing back...not sure how long you think is reasonable to wait..but if I worked for Google, I would be so embarrassed I would quit.