topic Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration? in Nest Thermostats

Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 14:19:39 GMT

I have an old house and when I am out of town in the winter I want to monitor the temp, get alerts and change temp remote as needed (I don't care about any other functionality)

I have oil burner with baseboard heating with 4 zones and a waterheater, each zones control different area in the house. Currently each thermostat only has 2 wires (Rh and W), no C-wire. What setup do I need?

I assume I will need 4 NEST thermostats - one for each zone - can I manage all from 1 app?

can I use the regular ( cheapest) NEST or do I need NEST E or the learning NEST? - just trying to control my total cost

If i need NEST power connector - do I need one for each zone?

instructions online are not clear If NEST actually fits my situation

thanks for any help

Christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:33:22 GMT

cwalenta,

The real key to understanding compatibility with a system like that is to verify that each of the zones is controlled by a 24VAC control system. Secondly, see if there is a possibility that each thermostat location has an unused conductor wire that can be used for a Power Common. Yes, you will need a nest thermostat for each of your current thermostats. The Nest Learning Thermostat 2nd and 3rd generation and the nest E thermostat already know how to use a power connector, the “regular” Nest Thermostat requires a software update in order to recognize and use a power connector. The nest app can control up to 10 thermostats at the same location.

Ken, The AC Cooling Wizard

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:48:15 GMT

Ken, thanks so much for answering

I can confirm that I have 24V, as I measured between RH and W contacts with my voltmeter.

I don't mind using the cheaper NEST thermostat if it will work with a SW update

Now, I assume I will need the NEST power connector, will I need 4 for each zone? and where/how will they be wired?

thanks so much

Christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 15:08:06 GMT

Ken, just to add more info . I have no additional wires

all wires go back to Motorized valves in basement (Honeywell) - one for each thermostat and an additional one for the waterheater also connected to the oil burner. ( see pic)

on the boiler itself is a control box (Aquastat Relay) on top right , and a thermostat of some sort on bottom left in the pic..

I am quite comfortable in doing wiring work as needed, jut don't know what to do exactly

any guidance is appreciated

thanks

Christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:19:14 GMT

Your Honeywell zone values operate on a 24VAC, the two yellow wires coming out of the valve is the control wiring of the valve. One of those yellow wires will be connected to the COMMON side of the transformer. The other is connected to the thermostat on W. The transformer sends Power to the Thermostat and will be connected to R or Rh. The thermostat calls for heat, it connects the R to the W and the power flows back to the valve yellow wire. You can use the simple Nest Thermostat for each location. there is no need for a Nest Learning Thermostat.

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 19:29:25 GMT

The basic Nest thermostat works with AA batteries so need to buy power connectors.

Ken

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 20:06:29 GMT

ok, that's great Ken. Will I need one or multiple power connectors ? and where/how do I wire it?

Christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:20:24 GMT

If you go with the basic nest thermostat, it runs on a pair of AA batteries. You won’t really need to invest in the power connector unless you want to go through the trouble of wiring one in for each of the thermostats. Since each thermostat only has a thermostat cable with two conductors inside, one red one white. There’s not a way to get you the 24 V AC Power Common from the transformer to power the thermostat. The basic nest thermostat is very much similar to a traditional thermostat that was programmable. It basically just runs on batteries and once every 12 to 18 months depending on how many times it turns on the heating system, you’ll need to replace the batteries. Now if you decide you would like to have them powered by the 24 V AC transformer, then you would need a power connector for every individual thermostat. The way the power connector works is, it is paired with the an individual nest thermostat.

Ken

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:57:09 GMT

Ken, thanks again.... I certainly would not install a Power connector if I do NOT need it, I am fine using AA batteries if that works? I thought from the comparability checker the regular NEST does NOT work in my situation without the Power connector.

Bottom line - are you saying I can just use a regular NEST for each of my zones and run it on AA batteries and then I don't need anything else???? that would be very easy for me to do!!

did I get this right?

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 23:39:11 GMT

Cwalenta,

Yes indeed the Nest Thermostat will work with your system. You have simply two wires, R and W. Buy yourself 4 Nest thermostats, use the nest app, and simply install them one at a time. The Nest compatibility checker always promotes the Learning thermostat. The basic thermostat will support your hydronic heating system; 24V AC, two wires - R and W.

Ken, The AC Cooling Wizard

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 12:41:48 GMT

Thanks Ken, will try that

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

Markjosephp — Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:58:49 GMT

Hello folks,

I wanted to ensure that everything was covered here.

Thanks for assisting, Ken.

@cwalenta, I hope you've got the answer you're looking for. If you're still in need of assistance, please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Best,

Mark

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 00:41:50 GMT

Ken. Mark - sorry but it did not work !!!!

going through the Home app steps, when it asks about the wire combination I have (Rh and W) it keeps saying that the Power Connector is needed and then the app does not let me proceed... what should I do next?

Can I just ignore the app and connect the R and W wires to the NEST thermostat???

or should I fake out the app (eg R,Y wirecombo seems to let me proceed without requesting the Power Connector

please advise

Christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 02:44:20 GMT

Christian,

I am unsure why the Nest App will not let you proceed with the installation. The installation tool should only know about two wires, Rh or Rc and W or W1. Typically we use Rc on programable thermostats that have heating only systems. The key for them to work without a nest power connector is if the coil in the valve is connected to the common side of the transformer. This is why I suggested you buy the ones that run on two AA batteries so you don’t have to worry about charging it from remote end. if you purchased a nest learning thermostat that creates a little bit more of a problem battery charging. I do not use the Google Home app since it does not do the installation process.
if you attach the red wire, and the white wire to R and W, the nest will detect the wires, and then you can set the function, but basically if you put a red wire on say, RC, and the white wire, and W, the system will detect and no it’ll be a heating system. If you go through the equipment configuration submenu on the thermostat, you can go down and define the wires and their function. If they’re any of them that are yellow instead of green, you’ll be able to correct that.

tell me what model thermostat did you buy?

Ken

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 16:32:25 GMT

Hi Ken , I have the regular NEST as discussed... I played with it some more and have progress...

when the App asked to install a NEST Power connector I just said I had it installed and proceeded

went through all the setup steps and completed

got initially an error connecting to WIFI, I redid and then it connected

but since then it has disconnected from wifi twice, always saying that there is not enough power to connect

right now I did restart and it reconnected.. for now.. but it displays error N260 - I guess that has to do with power..

- have not had time to research the error code, seems something regarding c wire- can I ignore it?

- do I need stronger wifi signal - I could put a wifi extender next to thermostat?

- or do I need to install the power connector afterall??

pleas advise

christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

CoolingWizard — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 18:07:24 GMT

I can say that I have yet to run into this problem. The Nest Thermostat uses AA batteries so it should not be complaining about power. Only the Nest Leaning thermostats with built in lithium report power issues. I often use WiFi renege extenders when needed as well.

Ken

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 22:22:27 GMT

I guess this is new for both of us then... here is what I found out...

N260

A C wire or Nest Power Connector is recommended for your thermostat

thats the notification message, It also list a number of issues that can occur with low power after installation, which include dropping the wifi Or for instance the motion sensor for the display not working - which is the case for me, I always have to press on the side of the thermostat to turn the display on...

so I guess that we established that the thermostat works, as you had said, but there could be potential issues... now if I am out of town for 2 months and the wifi disconnects I could be in trouble if I loose heat...

I tested if the wifi connects automatically if it drops, I turned the router off and back on and good thing is that after a few min the thermostat reconnected to wifi automatically

so basically it works,... but just for the sake of it I ordered a Power connector... I guess if I can get that to work, my system would be more reliable...what for instance if the batteries wear out after 2 months.. could they cause the wifi not to reconnect...

what does it take to install the power connector....any advice how I would install with my zone valves???

christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

cwalenta — Wed, 07 Dec 2022 13:07:51 GMT

HI Ken, I just got this email from GOOGLE NEST

Hi Christian,

We noticed that your Nest Thermostat isn’t receiving sufficient power, which will cause the thermostat’s batteries to drain rapidly. If this continues, your thermostat will work but may experience the following issues:

Reduced battery life, that may require replacements every few weeks
Disconnection from Wi-Fi
Disabled motion sensor
Unexpected activation of heating and cooling

This can be fixed by installing a Google Nest Power Connector or properly installing a common wire (also known as a C-wire).

--------------------------------------------------

Do you think I can ignore and trust on the batteries?

christian

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

Jhonleanmel — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 19:59:42 GMT

Hi folks,

Thanks for the help, CoolingWizard.

cwalenta, sorry for the delay. Check this guide on how to properly install a Nest Power Connector and what to do if you're still having issues after following the steps.

Best,

Mel

Re: Old house with 4 zones - NEST configuration?

EdwardT — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 00:00:16 GMT

Hi folks,

I wanted to follow up and see if you are still in need of any help. Please let me know if you are still having any trouble from here, as I would be happy to take a closer look and assist you further.

Thanks,

Edward