topic Re: Rush hr issue in Nest Thermostats

Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 03:55:47 GMT

I've joined the rush hr program. I have on demand plan with aps. 4-5 are on peak hrs. I have my thermostat set to 90 during those 3 hrs to make sure AC doesn't go on.

I live in AZ where temps the next 2 weeks are between 112-118 degrees. I pre cool to 76 a few hrs before onpeak starts. So today was 1dt day rush hr kicked in. It turned on my AC during on peak hrs , which I caught after running for 14 minutes and turned my thermostat back up. It won't let me go below 86 degrees for 5 friggin hours when it 114 outside. Says if I lower it even to 85 degrees it is inefficient,

I purposely keep my bills low on limited income. Not happy that "rush hour" is 5 hrs long and thinks anything under 86 is inefficient.

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 04:29:18 GMT

The entire Nest Rush Hour & Peak Time is all messed up recently, since they added the Peak Time feature/function!

I have turned off all scheduling & learning from Nest recently and manually program/adjust Nest from Google Home Automations.

It does not recognize/understand when a user's local utility has On-Peak or Off-Peak hours/schedules for its rates, and I have caught it twice this week turning my AC on 30 minutes before Off-Peak hours start and I think it is turning my AC off in the middle of the night when I am precooling my home for the day ahead.

The new "Peak Time" is based upon "lower carbon generation", but where is Google getting the info (sources are available) but those are not the same as Off-Peak (cheaper) hours.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 04:45:28 GMT

Oops 4- 7 are the on peak hrs. Might have to leave the rush hr program as it will increase my bill

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 04:52:51 GMT

What time do you start your pre cool. I tried when the temp outside was at its lowest 5-6 am. Thinking the system would be under as much strain when hotter outside. Found that it only took 60-90 minutes to go up 8-10 degrees. So trying different cooling schedules to save money and stay comfortable. 82 is ok for me 86 for 5 hrs isn't!!!

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 04:57:57 GMT

in NY our Rush Hours times are 4-7pm also, but it puts temp to 78 between 4-7pm. Not sure if the Rush Hour Temp varies by area/location, or possibly based on your Nest's history? But yes, before Rush Hour, it will automatically lower your temp the hour prior and cool your house.

Not sure your specific on/off peak hours, but this is something Nest needs to include within it software/programming before it starts messing around with temp settings through its new Renew/Peak Times functionality.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 05:15:23 GMT

Put my temp at 86 during rush hr program. Way to high! Not sure how they can to that temperature, but it's unkind to my 4 cats!

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 12:38:11 GMT

Just to be clear, the set temp is not the actual temp. 86 during Rush Hour only means a setpoint that keeps your AC off, unless the actual temp in your house raises to 86 during those 3 hours.

If your house is heating up that fast, it would suggest your AC has to run all day anyways. Sorry, your initial post said APS On-Peak (more expensive rates) are "4-5". Can you clarify this, as I read it as 4pm-5pm which doesn't make sense, nor would from 4am-5pm.

Rush Hour gives you a credit at the end of the year, that may or may not be more than you save/spent during those hours. Long story short, it helps APS & Google, but as a "small guy/girl" the granularity in our rate pricing at x, y & z times doesn't really benefit us.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 12:52:33 GMT

On peak is from 4-7 pm and yes my house was at 86 degrees for 5 hrs. When off peak timing started I had 3 fans on me and didn't drop them thermostat. I made it through getting the rush hr leaf. I'm trying something new today brought temp down to 70 until on peak so hoping temp will stay below 83bduring on peak. When it's 115 outside. House heats up fast. I have new AC, insulation,sealed all the ducts, sunshade window screens, 5 mos ago through a senior assistant program. Will see how today's test works and will check billing. Will probably drop out of the rush hr program as it is most likely costing me money. I appreciate our conversation

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 14:38:55 GMT

See image just to make sure you are understanding what Nest is doing & showing you.

I am trying to keep simple, as every utility rate/hours are different and my On-Peak hours are 8am to 12:30am and Off-Peak hours are 12:31am to 7:59am.

I just looked up APS and you are correct, On-Peak hours are 4pm-7pm during summer. https://www.aps.com/en/Residential/Service-Plans/Frequently-Asked-Questions#:~:text=Rates%20are%20higher%20during%20on,(Nov%2DApr%20bills).

Sorry, I don't know what Rates are specifically for APS, but I'm quite confident that Nest Rush Hour won't cost you extra money (it is free) and turning off your AC during higher rate hours saves you a small amount, even if you do turn it on for that last hour (6pm-7pm) if it gets too hot in your house.

Just an example... say your AC uses 2 kWh per hour when it is on. At the On-Peak vs Off-Peak rates I use in my example (see image) during Rush Hour, not turning AC will save you... 3 hours * 2 kWh/hr * $0.07/kWh = $0.42, but if you turn it on last hour... 1 hours * 2 kWh/hr * $0.07/kWh = $0.14, meaning you save $0.42 - $0.14 = $0.28 during the Rush Hour.

Hope this makes sense. BTW, that's great you were able to make all those improvements to your house. Side note, if your house is actually 70 before Rush Hour starts, I find it hard to believe it increases 16 degrees in those 3 hours, and maybe where the Thermostat is actually located may be the issue.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 16:09:33 GMT

The rush hr timing went from 4-9 pm, so 2 hrs beyond on peak rates. So to get the lowest utility bill I thought I shouldn't lower the temp from the 86vrush he had set it at and the house temperature was actually 86 degrees. Too hot for me and my critters. Rush hr plan says you can adjust temp power but it then doesn't give you the credit then it affects the bonus you get from using rush hr program. 50 for sign up and 35 for obeying it's setting through to Sept.

Kw off peak rate is 5.276.

On peak is 12.414 cents per kw

Demand charge during on peak is $16.875 per kw. That's where they get you.

My usual is around 15 kw during on peak . I shut everything down except internet;an 3 small fans to keep me and the critters cool. Nothing else is plugged in during on peak.

Trying to live in means while being moderately comfortable :).

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 18:15:24 GMT

Sadly, yes... they always get you!

That brings me back to my original side point (and a thread I created separately) on why Nest needs in incorporate/be aware of the different rates users have. Otherwise, it will keep turning on AC during higher On-Peak hours and not pre-cool during off-peak hours or overnight.

At this point, I've taken away all of Nest's learning & scheduling abilities and running automations through Google Home Assistant, just using Nest as a gateway to control my AC/Furnace by changing the setpoints.

Best of luck!

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 18:52:50 GMT

Is there a thread describing exactly how to take away nest's control? Would love to still be able to program a schedule and adjust as needed if I'm away from home.

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:27:53 GMT

Maybe I should create one to do exactly that. But I am doing it through Google Home Assistant and a bunch of automations.

you seem to understand better than most posting on this Nest community, so maybe you can see what I’m doing here in these screenshots. My off peak hours are at night, which works good for catching those cool early AM hours to max AC efficiency.

darnit can add images from phone 😬

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:48:54 GMT

Lbkittypac (there's no desktop version for Google Home Assistant, so once you understand and are able to use it, this schedule of my automations and how I adjust the Nest temp setpoints through GHA should make sense to you).

Ugg, now I can't upload images!

	00:35:00	03:00:00	07:45:00	11:00:00	11:45:00	14:30:00	15:20:00	19:10:00	19:50:00	22:00:00	22:30:00
Nest	70	66	76	70	76	70	76	70	76	70	76
	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~

	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~	~
Smart Plug Refrigerator	ON	~	OFF	ON	OFF	ON	OFF	ON	OFF	ON	OFF
Dehumidifier	ON	~	OFF	~	~	ON	OFF	~	~	~	~

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:49:38 GMT

Screen shots didn't appear. Thank you so much for trying to guide this nest mess.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:52:20 GMT

Appreciated : )

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 23:03:54 GMT

A slight mod, as my off-peak starts at 00:30, so I set Nest to 73 at 00:35 and turn on window fans to cool house if it is cooler outside, but only run AC until it reaches 73. Then at 03:00 I kick AC on hard by setting NEST to 66. Before On-Peak starts at 08:00 I set Nest to 78, which turns AC off.

Then for 30-50 minutes between 0800 and 00230, I run 4 sets of automations on/off of AC by setting On at 70 and Off at 78, so I am not getting to 70, but just running the AC a bit to cool some.

For my house, old AC, not best insulation, on a sunny day in NY with maybe a high of 90, and setting Nest at 70, the AC would run constantly as the house likes 74, but not 70.

This way I'm keeping it between 70-76 in the day during peak hours and am shifting more than 75% of my AC hours running into Off-Peak between 00:30-08:00, and instead of 12+ hours of AC running, I'm below 8 hours.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 23:26:43 GMT

Will give that schedule a try. I just shut down everything at 3:58 pm. Temp reached 70. In just 14 min since shutting down temp is now reading 74. Thermostat locate in small hallway. Warmer then other rooms for sure. Definitely going to try your schedule as mine ran for 11 hrs 🤯. When I had it set at 76 during off peak it would got to 84-85 by the end of on peak. I'm going to ignore rush hr. Doesn't seem worth the reward bonus to have house reach 86 for several hrs after on peak has ended. Today it is 117 where I live. I also set up a fan near the thermostat which drops the temp to reflect what it actually is in other parts of the house. AC stays 9n solid when going from 83 down to low 70s , which I do when outside temp is at its lost , which these days is 90 at around 5 am. 9nce I reach low 70s system kicks on and off every 10 min. As the days heat increases the AC doesn't drop the temperature by much. Fighting an uphill battle.

Re: Rush hr issue

Lbkittypac — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 23:28:10 GMT

In the time it took to write this. Thermostat has gone up to 75

Re: Rush hr issue

HansWT — Sat, 15 Jul 2023 13:22:13 GMT

Those changes are crazy! You must not have a lot of building mass, although the very high temps you have & the delta (difference between inside & outside temp) is large. Doesn't seem right with the new AC, duct sealing, insulation & window shades TBH.

I do have a full attic on a sprawling ranch (1 story) that gets to 115-120 daily that can push some heat into my house (note above about how house doesn't like 70), but I also have a full basement that stays around 65 and ducting is in basement (not attic like some newer homes).

The new Nest "Peak Time" function activated twice last night and turned off my pre-cooling, which is quite annoying. It shows up in the activity log for GHA if one is not watching NEST 24/7 while sleeping to see "Peak Time until ##.## [time]"