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Cold weather concerns with Nest Doorbell Battery

fernadno
Community Member

Hi,

Similar to some other posters here, I recently noticed that my Nest Doorbell battery (activated 2021-08-28), although wired, had lost much of its charge (down to 3%, indicated a 23 hour time to charge in Google Home app).

The 23 hour recharge estimate remained unchanged for 3 hours when kept wired to doorbell wiring.

From another recommendation on the forum, I decided to try unplugging from the doorbell wires and taking the doorbell indoors to charge via USB cable until 100%.

My doorbell remains plugged into a USB port, showing 2% charged, and an 18 hr 29 min time until full. It has been plugged in now for 1 hour, with no noticeable change in charge condition.

Outdoor temperatures have only recently dropped to below 0 degrees Celsius for longer than a few hours (max -7 degrees C).

Should I be concerned about the battery condition and how this doorbell is reacting to colder weather? Winter has yet to truly begin, and I am worried that this doorbell will not be functional as temperatures continue to drop. I know that ambient operating temperatures fall within -20 and +40 C (as indicated here).

 

 

 

1 Recommended Answer

Brad
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hey folks,


We appreciate the feedback on our battery Cameras and Doorbells. Our team is looking closely into this behavior, and we will continue to pass along reports we see here in the Community. To learn more about cold weather battery charging behavior in Nest cameras and doorbells, please stop by our Help Center.

 

Best regards,

Brad.

View Recommended Answer in original post

606 REPLIES 606

fernadno
Community Member

Update on my end (Hi there, I'm OP!) I haven't had to recharge my doorbell indoors since sometime early December). However, when I do ask my Google Assistant what my battery level is, it has been around 40% consistently. Some days, it's at 42%, and most recently it's down to 34%. We are in a bit of a cold snap at the moment (Montreal, QC) but not close to as cold as to what others have faced so far this winter.

 

Unrelated, I was starting to think that maybe, just maybe, this was some sort of battery life extender functionality, similar to what you find on your laptops with modern OS battery life awareness... For example, one of my laptops is always plugged in, and the macOS knows that it doesn't need not charge it to 100% and actually has the battery charge held to 77%. Similar behaviour with another Windows laptop in the house, who's battery saving is somewhat more aggressive (keeping it near 60%).

It would be great if Google could actually speak to that. But then again, if people's doorbells are actually being depleted completely, like mine did late last year, then this is probably not what is happening 😂

I just re-read what they have on their support site:

"However, after the doorbell is wired to the system, the battery will drop down to 75% and stay at that level or below."

I'm cool with that "or below" part, just not the "0% and shutting off" part.

dassub
Community Member

It's been -10 for a few days here.  My doorbell while wired stays around 68 - 73% when asking the Google assistant what the battery level is.

Yes, if the balance of charge/usage leans toward charging, it will float up to ~75% and not above that when connected to doorbell A/C.  As it gets colder, the ability to charge will drop off and at some point charging will not keep up with demand and the battery level will drop until it shuts off.  There is also a drop in reported battery level independent of the actual charge in the battery as the temps get colder due to the voltage level of the battery dropping.  That's how the device would determine current charge level. Both of those factors work against it being able to be functional at lower temps.  The cap of charge level at ~75% also makes it worse, as you have less buffer to ride through temporary cold spells.

I'm in Montréal too and my doorbell is doing the exact same thing.  Such a pain!

Aloha_papa
Community Member

I’m in Montreal too et j’en ai plein l’cul de cette sonnette. I can’t spend all the winter in recharging it each two weeks. 

MitchAllan
Community Member

Alberta here, couple hours north of Calgary. I bought this device on the weekend, it was -5C that day, a nice break between all the -20.. -30s we had been seeing.

 

Nest Doorbell (battery) worked great for that one day, over night it dipped to -22 and I get a notification that the device went offline around 5:30am... Its been cold since, this device is completely useless. Wired or not, it doesn't work in these winters.

 

I'll be heading back to Walmart and seeing if they will let me return it this weekend and patiently await the new 2022 Nest Wired Doorbell and hope it's a better product.

 

Sucks, cuz I really enjoyed this product for the day it worked!! But it literally won't work in our winters 3+ months of the year. Terribly designed product.. others in my town have the old Nest Doorbell and they are still operating just fine! Why can this one, while wired, not operate at all??!

Spoke to a Google Rep and they had zero knowledge of these issues and had laughed at the oversight on Google's behalf.. these are not cheap, I'd expect it to work..

On the question of why it won't run wired regardless of battery state, see my other posts for more detailed explanation of why this would/could be so.  In a nutshell, the device likely runs off of battery power only, because available power from doorbell A/C is not enough to run the device when it's fully powered up and recording.   The reason one wouldn't be able to draw much current is that the assumption has to be made that it is connected in series with a doorbell chime.  If you draw much current, you'll trip the chime (and potentially hold it in the closed position).  You also run the risk of harming the chime solenoid coil running current through it constantly at higher levels.  Normally, doorbell chimes only have current flowing though them when you hit the doorbell (which is just a switch).  All of this puts a constraint on how much power you can draw, and thus you're left with just trickle charging the battery.    The assumption would be that that the duty cycle of the device would be low enough that trickle charging would keep the battery topped up (in this case, topped up means ~75% charged).    Unfortunately, when the battery gets cold, it gets much more difficult to charge the battery as internal resistance increases.  That same increase in resistance also reduces how much power the battery can actually deliver, and reduces output voltage.   

It appears that some assumptions were made about the duration of cold weather that just aren't realistic for the northern US and Canada.  By tweaking down the number of events per day using better zoning, I've been able to get mine to stay awake through a couple of days of low 20's F,  with the battery level dropping down to 20% or so.    Another day or two at those temps and it would be at zero and shut off.   For me (US - North Central Indiana) it's going to be spotty with current settings.  I expect it will be shut down  20 to 30 percent of the time during Jan/Feb.   Canada and more northern locations in the US are going to see those temps (or much lower) for weeks at a time, and this doorbell is not going to work. 

The nest hello worked flawlessly off of chime power with always on realtime recording to cloud. I expect the same behavior with this while plugged when used within supported operating temperature. Period. I don't have to accept a crippled product when used in supported conditions.

I absolutely agree.   Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to provide any sort of cover for their design choices. I was just explaining how this sort of thing could happen, given the design constraints.  I presume that the amount of power required for the Nest Hello is quite a bit less, given no local AI processing, and thus able to run directly off of the doorbell A/C (and 24x7 at that).   

It's pretty clear they didn't give proper thought to real world use cases in cold weather.  I'll probably move to the Hello, or something else for my doorbell.

FXL
Community Member

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering how the doorbell charges without ringing or bypassing the chime, and probably keeping the current low enough not to trip the chime was the trick.

 

If this is how it works and the low current(insufficient power) causes the problem in the winter, maybe the chime-connector for the original nest hello can help the new 'battery doorbell' stay charged during the winter time? Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't mind buying the chime connector if Google approves the optional use of chime-connector(without voiding the warranty) and sells it from the official website.

I'm not that familiar with the Hello, so didn't realize it had some sort of optional chime adapter.   Do you know what the adapter is doing internally by chance?   I'll go research it, but just curious.

FXL
Community Member

Not 100% sure, because I didn't own/install them. However, I noticed most of Ring & nest hello have additional connector or power-kit supposed to be attached to the mechanical chime box. I guess the connector/power-kit bypasses the chime to constantly power the doorbell, and temporarily stops bypassing to ring the chime when the doorbell is pressed.

 

Actually that's one of the reasons I chose the battery model over the original nest hello. One less thing to install. However, if it can help the doorbell keep working during the winter, I wouldn't mind installing another accessory to the chime box. Of course only if Google doesn't void the warranty with it. Otherwise, I'm more likely to return it soon and wait for the winter-proof version.

Yeah, ok...I'll look into it.    I was wondering how the Hello (and other similar non-battery doorbells) handled the chime ringing event without shutting themselves off 🙂 . Some sort of external adapter (especially with maybe a big capacitor or small battery) would be a way to solve that problem.

 

This all said, the battery doorbell would need to be changed to recognize when it's bypassed from the chime, and thus able to draw as much power as they want.  Sans that, it would have to keep working as originally designed.

Brad
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hey folks.

 

I do not have an update at this time, but I wanted to continue to thank you all for your feedback, and workarounds. We are still looking into this issue at this time. Thank you for your patience.

 

Best regards,

Brad.

@firmwaredev  and @FXL 

We have two Google Nest Hello Doorbells that use the chime connector, one of them for two years.

Here is what Google Nest Help (https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9247132?hl=en) says about the chime connector:

"Important: The Nest Doorbell (wired) must be installed with the chime connector included in the box. The Nest Doorbell (battery) does not need the chime connector for wired or battery-powered installation."

"The chime connector allows the chime’s wires to deliver constant power to the Nest Doorbell (wired), while protecting your chime from damage. In addition, without the chime connector, you might experience chime buzzing or unexpected chimes." (emphasis added)

The third Google Nest Hello doorbell we just installed using the OhmKat Video Doorbell Power Supply (https://www.ohmkat.com/products/ohmkat-230v-video-doorbell-power-supply-compatible-with-nest-hello) (because our third door was in never wired for a doorbell) does NOT use the chime connector; Ohmkat says: "You do not need the chime connector with OhmKat power supplies, even when installing a chime. We have built the necessary protections into our power supplies which makes the chime connector redundant. For installations with our power supplies, please connect the Nest Hello directly to the power supply and plug it in. It is that simple."  (We now have OhmKat's electronic chime, which is designed to work with it's power adapter.  So far, both the Nest Hello and the chime, as well as notifications to our Nest Hubs, are all working fine.)

You can see the chime connector in the attached screen shot.  With two doorbells, it's a bit crowded under our chime's housing.

Screen Shot 2022-01-05 at 1.45.07 PM.png

FXL
Community Member

Thanks for the information. I guess the key information is that the chime connector provides constant power to the doorbell without tripping/damaging the chime. I hope this kind of idea helps Google Nest engineers come up with the cold weather solution/accessory for the battery powered model. I'm looking forward to it!

Ah, interesting.  So yeah, the picture here is getting more clear in how the new design would have been chosen.    They wanted to eliminate the extra hardware (and associated complexity of install for the average person), so they built the thing to just run (well not really run, but trickle charge) on a very small amount of current to eliminate all of that.   Of course more broadly they clearly wanted to avoid doing a bunch of AI crunching in their cloud for every event, so they moved to an entirely event based model (processed locally).  That limits the amount of video flowing to the cloud significantly.    It's a good plan...as long as it isn't too cold (or if you want 24x7 recording..which could never happen with this design)  :).

Given that, would bypassing the chime altogether provide more power to the doorbell? I get that it’ll still face cold weather charging issues but maybe would have an easier time keeping up?

CastenS
Community Member

My battery is at 81% and the doorbell camera is in hibernation. So, there is power from the wiring and the battery. 

As if it's in the software to shut off at -20°C 

If the device could detect that it was not in series with a chime, that would be possible.   I haven't seen any evidence that it is able to do that, however.  A number of people have this issue that are not connected to a chime and that have very healthy transformers.     The design appears to be battery only (with trickle charging) in all cases at this point.  

It would have been a good design point to provide an option for chime  bypass, with a switch of some sort (or even auto-detection) to allow it to draw enough to run directly off of A/C.

That's my theory. 

And lithium batteries don't take charge at -20°C, so the software will shut down the camera. 

Oh yeah, and that's true even above -20C.  Li-ion starts increasing in internal resistance below about 5C or so, and gets progressively worse as it gets colder.    With my current setting (that result in only 10 to 12 events per day), my doorbell starts loosing ground at around -5C .

In addition to being unable to charge, it also will not produce sufficient voltage/current at very low temps, regardless of the state of charge.

I have my old Nest Doorbell chime connector. I wonder what would happen if I tried to use it… Anyone want to test before me? 😉

MplsCustomer
Bronze
Bronze

I've concluded that there seems to be no advantage to the so-called Google Nest "battery" doorbells and cameras.

In cold weather (we're in Minnesota), the Google Nest Battery Doorbell apparently can't keep its battery charged. I was considering getting one for our third entrance, which was never wired for a doorbell. After seeing all the comments here, I instead bought a Google Nest Hello Doorbell, drilled a 1/4-inch hole into the porch, and connected it with Ohmkat's Nest Hello-compatible video doorbell power supply to an indoor outlet 10 feet from the door.  Ohmkat also has an electronic chime that works with its power supply, has a support number that is answered, and is responsive.

When we bought the new Google Nest Battery Camera in September 2021, we were fortunate to buy it with the optional power cable. So our camera has NOT shut down in cold Minnesota weather, and does not run in battery-powered "Idle" mode, thereby failing to detect many events (as reported in other posts in this forum). However, if it were still available, we could have simply gotten the old Google Nest Outdoor Camera for a lesser total cost, and we wouldn't be stuck using two apps indefinitely, unless and until Google adds Nest app functionality to the Google Home app.

Yeah, overall I'd have to agree.   If it was 70F all the time where I live, I guess I might have a different feeling, but it's not, so I don't :).  The local AI is good.   I don't know how much faster or better it was than the cloud based AI with the Nest Hello (and other older Nest cams), but given the cold weather performance it's obviously not worth it.

Agree on the Nest / Home app fiasco.  Unfortunately, Google, like a lot of companies, fail to learn how to do acquisitions properly.   I see it over and over again - with companies buying a brand, then failing to understand the important of valuing the history and ecosystem of that brand.  I only use the Nest App for my thermostat, so it's not as big a deal for me to have two apps (and I can do the basics on the thermostat from the Home app), but for those with cameras, I totally get the frustration.

CastenS
Community Member

I am new to the Doorbell camera thing. 

It's wired and was working since I installed it on NYE. 

Next day temps dipped below -20°C and instantly the camera stopped working. Even thos it's wired, battery status is as 81% for days now. Still not working, just the "it's gonna work when temps are normal" screen. 

I am pissed I did not know about this before I dropped a money but I found that Google does give operating temps on their website, so it's on me for not doing my ho

milne
Community Member

Still crickets from google?

jonen
Community Member

I'm sad that I found this thread... my doorbell just died and it's only about 10°F outside. Hoping for the best since it's now charging indoors, but this is quite sad.

bradman
Community Member

I'm pretty frustrated with this expensive paperweight.  Purchased it back in September for our vacation property so that I can monitor activity remotely (it's a 3-hour drive away).  It worked when temperatures were warmer, but now that the temperatures have dropped to below zero C, I'm paying $8/month for a device that remains offline.  I've had an August Doorbell Cam for 5 years in Edmonton without any of these problems.

CastenS
Community Member

I am in Edmonton. Let's see how this camera is next week when it's warmer again. 

I don't get when it's wired why the battery matters. All I can think about is that the camera is powered by the battery all the time and the wired portion is just for slow charging. This would also explain why the camera can not do 24/7 recording. It probably takes more amps to operate than what the charge would give. If that's the case it's a complete design flaw. 

bradman
Community Member

As far as I know, the August Doorbell Cam works on the same principle - the doorbell wires charge the battery, which powers the camera.  Unlike the Nest Doorbell, the August Doorbell Camera actually works in cold temperatures (and doesn't have a monthly subscription!!).

CastenS
Community Member

Never heard of August, so I looked it up. It's said discontinued. 

I looked at the specs and it's also -20°C to +50°C 

bradman
Community Member

Good to know.  I'm sure the Nest Camera does draw more battery to power its AI processors.

I think the Nest Hello would have been a better choice for Alberta winters.

Yes, see my other posts and posts from others where we ponder possible reasons.  Main reason would be that you can't draw much current without tripping the chime.  Combine that with the likely heavier power requirements with the onboard AI, and the design was likely steered toward a battery only one with trickle charging.  I recall that google claimed the lack of 24x7 was about thermal issues on hot days (and that may well have been a legitimate issue), but clearly that was not the only reason.  This design could never do 24x7.

2021ltd
Community Member

Add me to the list. Have had the doorbell installed for about a week (ironically, I moved from the old Nest Doorbell to have everything in one app and for the new AI). 

Since I wired it, I never worried about battery SOC. However, a couple of days ago, while the Google Home app shows me live video when I select the doorbell and the infinite symbol under settings/battery, my Nest Hubs think the doorbell is battery powered and show me the SOC… Odd but it allowed me to realize SOC was at 69% Monday. Struck me as odd that it wasn’t 100% since it’s wired. This morning, it had dropped to 36%. Weather over the last two days has been at around -15C. 

So, I researched and found this thread. Helpful. Already, I’ve been able to curb the drop by keeping one zone only and selecting all the low battery usage options. It’s been -5C today, have had about 10 events and the SOC has remained stable all day.

I get the cold had an impact but my constant playing with my new doorbell and having lots of recorded events as well as charge hungry settings probably didn’t help either. I’ll monitor its longer term behaviour with the new config.

That being said, I was shocked to realize the thing runs off the battery and not the AC connection. Fearing the Jan and Feb cold spells… Google, please help us out!

2021ltd
Community Member

Since realizing 24 hours ago the trickle charging wasn't keeping up, my battery has only lost 1%, going from 34 to 33%. I have had 18 events during that period of time and the temperature has gone from 0C to -7C.

I've really cut down the bleeding by going with the most conservative battery settings (pix qual, sensitivity, record length, etc.). So, that's encouraging. There's a way to mitigate.

Doesn't solve the issue completely of course and we need a permanent fix but it seems like there's a way to extend the battery life quite a bit with settings.

I'll let it drop until it shuts down to verify that it really does and submit a ticket at that point.  

I concur.  You can definitely extend how long it can stay above water with settings.  My initial settings wouldn't allow me to go for more than a couple of days below 0C.   It was picking up a lot of things from the street, though.   

I've had a few days of cold (-10C ish or so), moving down to around -15C tonight and tomorrow.  I've dropped from fully charged to around 20% in that time.   5-8 events per day, so really light compared to normal (mostly because of Covid related inactivity 🙂 ).   It is still steadily dropping.  I'm not sure if it will make it overnight or not.   For this area, with these trimmed down settings,  this thing might yet work for me if I don't have any really extended cold spells.   Normal event activity that  I see would shorten this somewhat.  It's a balancing act of events vs the weather, pretty much.

2021ltd
Community Member

So I chatted with support to raise the issue of my battery draining while wired and the fact my Google Home Hubs show the doorbell as battery operated. On the latter, they claim that it is normal because the Hub recognizes the device as battery-operated… Not sure if that makes sense given the app recognizes appropriately as wired but that’s what they said. On the former, the agent assured me my doorbell would stay online as long as it is wired even if the battery drains and stated the operating temperatures (ie may not work below -20C). I pointed to all the cases in the forum suggesting the contrary but agent insisted I should not worry. I’m at 34%. Cold spell coming over the weekend. We shall see if by some chance I am luckier than everyone else. 😉