Dolby Digital 5.1 passthrough CCwGTV issues

[Rich24]

Hi

Please can I get confirmation of the latest position on issues with CCwGTV supporting older surround formats. I have a tv and receiver than only support DD not DD+. Apps on the tv will pass DD to my receiver for say Netflix but CCwGTV will not do this with the same services. I have the same issues with movies from the play store and the Disney+ app. 

From reading around it seems this is a problem with CCwGTV not downmixing DD+ content to DD only stereo. I’ve seen some views that this isn’t in compliance with Dolby’s standards, that other streaming sticks don’t have this problem and that the standard is built so that the downmixing isn’t even needed as DD+ remains  backwards compatible but I don’t know if this is the case.

Are google working on providing support or am just supposed to replace all my other kit to maintain surround support? 

Thanks

[djtetei]

Why would you want to sens Dolby Digital Plus content to a receiver that only has support for Dolby Digital?

Movie releases, both on discs and online, offer multiple soundtrack versions and at least one Dolby Digital or PCM soundtrack for devices without support for enhanced sound formats. All you have to do is to select the compatible sound format for your receiver and engage passtrough in GCGTV.

Because GCGTV include an audio DAC, it will perform downmix only to stereo,

Multichannel audio streams will be passed through for decoding on a compatible TV set or receiver.

[Rich24]

Hi thanks for the response. I believe I do have the correct settings on my CCwGTV and my tv to passthrough Dolby Digital but don’t get DD 5.1 passed through.

From what I’ve read elsewhere the problem is  Netflix and Disney+ only offer DD+ and while this should be backwards compatible with DD devices - for example the Netflix app on my tv provides DD output -  CCwGTV doesn’t send a compatible signal for some reason. 

[djtetei]

Have you selected "Allow multichannel sound" in GCGTV Sound Settings?

In advanced sound settings select manually Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus .

[Rich24]

I have tried various combinations of those setting but I either get silence or only stereo.  

[djtetei]

After applying various settings in GCGTV have you restart it?

What is your signal chain from the TV to your receiver? Are you sending the signal from the TV to the receiver via HDMI, digital coaxial or digital optical output?

Given the fact that your TV set doesn't support DD+, you could take another approach, by connecting the GCGTV directly to your receiver, to allow its decoder to extract the core Dolby Digital signal from Dolby Digital Plus.

Alternatively, you could connect GCGTV to a HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 switch or extractor, with digital coaxial output, to passtrough the digital signal to your receiver.

The problem with Dolby Digital Plus signal depends on the presence of Atmos metadata. If Atmos metadata is embedded in DD+ signal, the receiver's DD decoder will have difficulties in extracting the DD core signal. If DD+ signal is not containing Atmos metadata, the receiver's decoder should be able to extract the core DD signal.

Can you provide information about the TV model and receiver model?

[Rich24]

Hi

TV is Samsung UE48H6700, Reciever is a somewhat older pre HDMI Pioneer VSX AX3. Connection is digital, I believe optical. 

I haven’t tried restarting CCwGTV on changing settings so will look at when I get chance though I suspect there have been intervening restarts while I’ve had it and been trying different options.

Thanks

[mayank31796]

There was a huge thread soley dedicated to this issue on CCwGTV. 
The thread had over 750 upvotes and 1500+ replies but @User123456 decided to swipe it under the carpet and took down the entire thread. 
https://support.google.com/chromecast/thread/76596323?hl=en

This issue has never been resolved I recommend returning the device and getting Real Me streaming stick which has the same GTV interface. 

[djtetei]

If you are not up to date with the latest Google Chromecast with Google TV capabilities, please, don't mislead other people by making uneducated statements.

Google Chromecast with Google TV received updates and it definitely has support for multichannel sound.

[mayank31796]

I beg to differ. I have been actively advocating the issue and was the primary liaison for this issue on that thread.  I can point you to the hours of conversations I had with Google's engineering team and all the bug reports and logs I and the rest of the members on the thread who have submitted to get this resolved. (wait oh yes, google deleted that thread)

CCwGTV supports multichannel audio but POORLY. DD+ is not properly handled by CCwGTV. Instead of downmixing DD+ to DD, CCwGTV does directly PCM 2.0 . And there are several issues with how HDMi handshake is a problem with CCwGTV. (Disney + Dolby vision problems were mainly due to this) 
If you spend just 10 mins googling CCwGTV DD+ issue you'll see 100s of threads on reddit and here. 

I would urge you to get your facts right before claiming my comments are misleading. I have literally linked the thread where the issue was heavily advocated. There are multiple threads here just asking why google took that down. 

I have a Denon AVR-S960H 7.2 Ch. 8K which clearly supports Dolby Digital, Digital +, Atmos, Vision, DTS X, DTS TruHD and 4k dolby vision pass through. That means also HDCP2.3. 

My ccwgtv in manual multichannel shows all audio formats supported. All streaming services also show the DD+/Atmos/Vision badges on streaming services. But playing any content gets you *NO AUDIO*.  Turning Atmos off and with all services showing 5.1 the output instead goes to stereo. 

Using the same services on my firestick 4k and Nvdia Shield I have no such issues and my receiver also shows Atmos/DD+ when playing content.

Please kind sir, I urge you to do the research before barfing up on others. Hope you have a great rest of your life.

[djtetei]

GCGTV never claimed to downmix DD+ to DD and, frankly, it is not its job to do it, but just perform the passtrough to other devices with compatible Dolby decoders built-in. It is the TV or receiver's Dolby decoder job to extract the core Dolby Digital signal from a Dolby Digital Plus signal.

Furthermore, the TV and receiver manufacturers are still free to choose how they want to implement multichannel sound decoding and routing to other devices via HDMI or other digital outputs.

Other times it is the streaming services that handle poorly the audio signal chain.

Sometimes the best way is to connect GCGTV directly to the receiver and then to the TV.

Not everyone has the problems reported in that thread.

[mayank31796]

This is where you are wrong again CCwGTV does NOT pasthrough audio instead processes it by itself. 

I can confirm the issue I highlighted above is not present when forcing Kodi to passthrough audio instead of processing it on CCwGTV instead and the same Apps' addons on kodi play full Dolby Atmos flawlessly. 

Its is CCwGTV's lack of audio passthrough and device choosing to process audio natively and poorly which is causing these issues. Simply allowing audio to passthrough should help solve this problem when the CCwGTV is connected to a receiver like I have mine.

You are partly right about not everyone having this problem but from my research as a painful user of CCwGTV the people who have this issue is a pretty representable fraction that Google should not ignore. 

You are right about streaming services not implementing audio transcoding well but Google is also a little at fault here for cheaping out on getting the proper DD/DTS licenses. 

I am kinda getting this feeling like you would need some reading to do on this subject since you are actively commenting on forums trying to help users so below are references on the issue of DD+/DD and CCwGTV not doing audio passthrough. Please I urge you to read up more on this and audio licensing that google didnt get. 

A quick Google search on this brought me these, I know there are more so crack away at it

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chromecast/comments/ky573x/ccwgtv_and_kodi_with_audio_pass_through/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chromecast/comments/loljaj/does_ccwgtv_really_not_do_surround_sound_or_is_i...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chromecast/comments/mw7919/ccwgtv_netflix_and_dolby_digital_plus_passthroug...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chromecast/comments/mf5kq7/beyond_frustrated_w_ccwgtv_audio_issues/

[djtetei]

If you read Netflix instructions about delivering their multichannel soundtracks to the world, one could easily see the fact that they play for themselves by forcing users to own or buy TV sets or AV receivers with Dolby Digital Plus built-in. Why? To make it easy for themselves on costs and implementation.

In fact, by asking money from their customers to benefit from a certain broadcast plan (Standard or Premium), Netflix should be the ones who must ensure backwards compatibility with different end user devices, like TVs and receivers, including old standard Dolby Digital or DTS, by providing plain standard Dolby Digital audio soundtracks.

For standalone Blu-Ray players is mandatory to support Dolby Digital, but it is not mandatory to support Dolby Digital Plus, because Dolby Digital Plus should be encoded as an extension of Dolby Digital (with metadata written in the file header) to allow for a non Dolby Digital Plus encoder to be able to read the core Dolby Digital stream that must be embedded in the Dolby Digital Plus soundtrack.

The fact that Netflix push for Dolby Digital Plus compatible TV or receiver, means that the way they deliver their multichannel signal doesn't allow standard Dolby Digital decoders to read the core Dolby Digital signal that must be part of the Dolby Digital Plus a signal, when, in fact, they should.

Or, according to Dolby Laboratories specifications, Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC3) should be backward compatible with Dolby Digital.

Do you see a conspiracy and a marketing strategy from Netflix and its partners here?

Furthermore, not all movies are released with Dolby Digital Plus soundtrack. So, how come all movies on Netflix, that have multichannel soundtracks are streamed in Dolby Digital Plus? Because Netflix encode the soundtracks in Dolby Digital Plus although not all releases have more than 6 channels, but do not bother to offer a standard Dolby Digital soundtrack also for compatibility with older multichannel decoders.

For Google Chromecast with Google TV the only thing that matters is to be able to read the core AC3 signal and allow the digital multichannel signal to passtrough, unmodified and even unverified, to Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus compatible devices, able to decode it or send it further down the audio signal chain via HDMI, coaxial or optical digital outputs.

"Is Dolby Digital Plus content backward-compatible?

Because Dolby Digital Plus is built on core Dolby Digital technologies, content tthat is encoded with Dolby Digital Plus is fully compatible with the millions of millions existing home theaters and playback systems worldwide equipped for Dolby Digital playback. Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks are easily converted to a 640 kbps Dolby Digital signal without decoding and reencoding, for output via S/PDIF. The 640 kbps bit rate, which is higher than the standard 448 kbps used on DVDs, is fully compatible with all existing Dolby Digital decoding products such as A/V receivers, and can provide higher-than-DVD quality from Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks when played back through existing systems."

Dolby Laboratories official documentation.

[djtetei]

It seems that your TV model has support for Dolby Digital Plus audio format, after all, according to the user manual specifications.

So, in my opinion, the TV should be able to retransmit the multichannel sound to the receiver via digital optical audio output.

In GCGTV Display & Sound menu, enable Surround Sound.

In GCGTV Display & Sound menu, go to Advanced Sound Settings -> Format Selection, select Manual, then enable both Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus.

If you leave Format Selection on Automatic mode, the applications on GCGTV may decide on their own to deliver you a lower quality sound format, so, it is better to specify yourself what sound formats you want in Manual mode.

On your TV, go to Sound -> Speaker Settings -> TV Sound Output and select Receiver.

On your TV go to Sound -> Additional Settings -> Audio Format and, depending on the input source format, select Dolby Digital.

On the AV receiver side, although it is a bit dated in terms of connectivity, all you have to do is to ensure it is put in surround mode.

Keep in mind that the audio signal, especially Dolby Digital Plus audio, sent by GCGTV via HDMI must be processed by your TV decoder, in order to deliver it through digital optical output, because digital optical don't have the bandwidth to carry Dolby Digital Plus audio signal.

About GCGTV, make no mistake: it has support for multichannel surround sound.

[dmako]

For what it's worth I too and not getting DD+ with my ccgtv.

I have the ccgtv plugged into my receiver and use ARC to TV.

YouTube tv plays only stereo.

Now Apple app on ccgtv plays Atmos and so does prime videos all through ccgtv.

Also YouTube tv plays DD+ using app in TV.

Also tested a Fire stick with Google TV app all good DD+.

Just the actual ccgtv will not play DD+.

[mayank31796]

I know how widespread the issue is but some dont want to accept it. And google wont fix it.

Many android tv devices have option to just pass through audio without the device having to do anything. I hoped google would give users that option but it all seems like a pipedream now that this issue has been active for an year now and Google wont say a word.

[mschwarzzz]

@dmako,  what AVR do you have?  I just got a CCwGTV and about to install into one of my Denon X6700H HDMI ports with ARC to TCL 4K TV.   I currently get DD+ native on my TCL 4K TV (using built-in Roku) with ARC to my Denon, but now you've got me worried that I'll lose DD+ by going with CCwGTV and going the other way around.

[dmako]

I have a Yamaha TSR-5810.

Just odd as other apps on the CCGTV use audio fine i.e. Atmos. DD+ just CCGTV live stations do not.

[djtetei]

If your TV supports Dolby Digital Plus, it should be able to send it via HDMI arc to your receiver.

[dmako]

And it does. HBO Max for example DD+ works just fine.

Just live channels only provide stereo on CCGTV. CCGtv via TV app provide DD+.

To sum Google TV live channels from TV app DD+.

Google TV from dongle does not.

[djtetei]

If your TV support Dolby Digital Plus and you connect Google Chromecast with Google TV to your TV HDMI input, the TV HDMI arc should be able to send Dolby Digital Plus from Google Chromecast with Google TV to your compatible AV receiver.

What year model is your TV?

[dmako]

It probably would work if I plug the ccwgtv into my TV.

But I prefer it into my receiver Yamaha tsr-5810. Again other apps like HBO Max, apple TV work just fine just live TV via Chromecast TV do not. So I know the connections are good.

[djtetei]

When you say live TV are you referring to cable TV programs or live TV applications?

Live TV applications, especially the free ones, do not use Dolby Digital Plus as an audio format.

[dmako]

Well if I use the dongle ccwgtv and use YouTube tv app live TV just stereo.

Now if I use the same YouTube TV app built into Samsung TV again same app just one in Chromecast other in TV I do get DD+ 5.1 sound. This is confirmed by listening and my receiver's display.

The ccwgtv DOES offer surrounded sound 5.1 there even is a toggle for it it it's settings for audio.

[djtetei]

Aș far as I know from YouTube TV press releases, the multichannel sound format is implemented first in Android and snart TV sets, followed by other devices on a later date.

Google Chromecast with Google TV is an YouTube TV supported device, but it is up to Google to decide when YouTube TV application for Google Chromecast with Google TV will be available with multichannel sound.

While it may seem to you that YouTube TV us the same application, both on Android / Smart TV and GCGTV, actually it is not, despite the fact that Google TV runs on top of Android operating system.

But, the fact that Google Chromecast with Google TV is an official YouTube TV supported device, means that, sooner or later, it will receive a multichannel sound update.

[dmako]

As far as I know it was updated to support 5.1 months ago.

Also so Google TV on Samsung TV running Tizen is updated to allow 5.1 but not googles own device? Don't buy it.

[djtetei]

I'm not the one who said it, YouTube TV representative did.

YouTube TV 5.1 audio is coming to Chromecast with Google TV later than other devices 

[dmako]

Understood, thanks for taking the time to reply.

[djtetei]

You're welcome!

But, really, it is up to us, users, to keep in touch with each other, as Google support team members don't seem to be too active in this community, although it is in their own interest too to clarify, confirm or deny device features, capabilities and updates.

It is enough to look into help tutorials to notice the lack of complete and detailed information about how every feature and setting work or should work. Because of this minimal informations provided or user know how assumption, many device users have difficulties in understanding how a device should work, by itself or in conjunction with other devices, or how to set it up in different scenarios.

[Jeran]

Hey there!

We haven't heard back from Rich24, and it looks like djtetei was able to help out dmako in the meantime, so I'm locking the thread. As always, feel free to make a new thread if you have any more questions or concerns.

Thank you so much for your help on this, djtetei!

Best regards,
Jeran