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Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

RachelC
Community Manager (Admin)
Community Manager (Admin)

Hey everyone, 

I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and smoke alarms. Nest Protect cannot function as a heat alarm due to specific hardware and functional requirements of those devices. So, beginning February 2022,  Nest Protects will not meet these new requirements due lack of interconnection with a compatible heat alarm. 

At this time, there are no current plans to produce a heat alarm and we do understand this is not ideal for many of our Scottish customers, but you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm as an addition to your interconnected system. We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

We ask that you continue to refer to the guidance of your fire and local authorities and we’ll also share any updates and changes as they arise. 

Thanks,

Rachel

57 REPLIES 57

jss32
Community Member

Hello, it’s good to finally have confirmation on this after two years of asking. The lack of a compliant solution means that rather than just purchasing a single new Nest detector, customers in Scotland will have to purchase an entire set of detectors from a Nest competitor. There is obviously no obligation to keep an existing product compliant with future regulations, but I expect better from Google, given the huge period of notice we gave you for the change. Would Google consider a pro rata refund of the life remaining in what is now a defunct product? The suggestion of using existing Protects alongside a compliant system is frankly ridiculous.

ZombieBoy
Community Member

Can I translate this for Scottish members?

tough luck, you bought a pup when buying Nest. A total and utter waste of your dosh. Buy something else, and mibes just leave the nest stuff oan the ceiling… it’ll cover the holes made when you installed it, just fine. In fact, that’s the only purpose it’ll serve in Scotland from here on in.

thanks Nest, a total and utter waste of money and effort.

Rossmof
Community Member

Thanks for the update. Presumably you’ll be removing Nest Protect from sale in Scotland immediately as it is non compliant?

Ballsy
Community Member

Did you really just say "you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm", you are kidding right? You expect customers to keep your defective product along with a compliant set?

You have just lost a whole country of potential customers, not only for the smoke detector but I'll guarantee that people will also shy away from all other nest products in future. Not just from Nest but also away from all Google assistant based products, Google 0 - Alexa 1

 

I can't think of any other word than disgusting.

Maxx
Community Member

I was almost buying the Google Pixel 6 but not now

NickB
Community Member

Ouch!

I have 4 wired Nest Protects in my house, and because the one in the kitchen will no longer comply with Scottish law from Feb 2022 (and thus also invalidate home insurance policies) I'll need to replace the whole system.

So I have basically wasted ~£400 on the Nest Protects! 😞

JamesB81
Community Member

My 2 x Nest Protect still have 7 and 8 years life left in them. Will you be offering a prorated refund?

tomrup
Community Member

Same applies to new builds and major refurbs in England and Wales - would be nice if Google admitted this too.

-Craig
Community Member

@RachelC the tags in your post say Nest Protect (Gen1), so does this only apply to the older Nest Protects? Or does it also apply to Nest Protects that are currently on sale?

ZombieBoy
Community Member

Applies to all Nest Protects

diaveldes
Community Member

So the 7 units I have installed are basically ceiling ornaments not fit for purpose. 

I guess, the nightlight could still be useful… but yes, they are utterly pointless from a legal/insurance perspective.

MRTMoe
Community Member

I have been waiting for an answer from Google half expecting a date when I could purchase a heat alarm and make my very expensive 8 protect system compliant with Scottish law. This answer beggars belief! Big holes in my ceilings for the hardwired alarms which are nothing more than extremely expensive nitelights now and they still have 6 years of life in them. These are the only Google products I have ever bought and that fact will remain. Absolute joke of a company!

-Craig
Community Member

Just curious, has anyone contacted Google support, as per Rachel:


We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

Thanks,

Rachel


I am wondering what the 'next steps' would be?

diaveldes
Community Member

I think I may be doing this as there is nothing letting you know these are non compliant.  

-Craig
Community Member

Maybe watchdog@bbc.co.uk would be interested?

diaveldes
Community Member

I intend to contact my MSP Monday and ask why they contine to allow these to even be sold. 

mwclubb
Community Member

This is madness. You need to put a compliant model into production ASAP. 

No point talking about how sustainable your products are when you've just scrapped hundreds or thousands of devices across Scotland.

Please provide an update

diaveldes
Community Member

Do you have an easy link for contacting support as I find my self with your not fit for purpose system that I need to replace.

Philr
Community Member

The building regulations in England also require a connected heat alarm in the Kitchen but unfortunately that hasn't stopped Google continuing to sell them here even though they know they're non-compliant and not suitable for the UK market.  Shame on you Google.  

I  bought 9 of these before realising they're non-compliant, by which time it was too late to return them.  Please do the honourable thing and either withdraw these products from the UK market or ensure they're clearly labelled and advertised as being non-compliance so that potential buyers don't fall into the same trap as I have.

tomrup
Community Member

I’m trying to get Which? to cover this but they seem strangely uninterested. Of course they like most of the media rely on a lot of traffic from the search engines…

Auldian
Community Member

Edward posted a reply to a question question in 2/21, regarding Google Nest's smoke alarm compliance with the latest Scottish Governments legislation, which to come in on 2/22.

Here is part of his reply,

"At this stage, this is a proposal from the Scottish Government that is yet to be passed into law. As a result, it may be subject to change between now and being made formal legislation. Google Nest is monitoring these regulations awaiting confirmation of exact legislation from the Scottish Government. Check out the Scottish Government’s report here for more information.
Thanks,
Edward"
Is there an update? 

The Scottish government list the Nest Protect system as non compliant. It may not be passed into law but I think the wording is pretty much set. There are many reasons for a dedicated heat alarm. This is just one. I had planned to fit one of these in my garage when I realised they are no good in there either. 

NickB
Community Member

I shared this thread on Reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/q96b1a/google_confirm_nest_protect_alarm_system_not/

 

I also contacted Nest Support directly and these were the replies I got:

Nick: Hopefully there is a solution. It would be very disappointing to have to replace my 4 wired Nest Protect with a different system to comply with the law come February.

Google Support: We do appreciate your time checking this with us. As of now, we don't have any update but will keep our users posted via our support site. 

Nick: As such, that makes the £400 I've spent on the Nest smoke alarms a waste of money. Do you have a buy back/ refund scheme?
Google Support: About buy back or refund scheme, as of now, we don't have either of these options. 

So no real additional information or help! 😞

Swayze88
Community Member

I believe that it's not just the lack of heat detectors that make the google nest non compliant. Also on the battery model the batteries can be removed, so are not tamper proof, and communication via WiFi is also not permitted, so I would say that unfortunately for all of us with Nest alarms, we are screwed. As has been said before, a now very expensive night light system. 

NickB
Community Member

The battery replacement might be an issue, but the Nest Smoke alarms do not connect to each other using WiFi, they create their own wireless connections (just like other wireless smoke alarms. ZigBee if I remember correctly), Wifi being used only for initial setup and mobile notification.

Swayze88
Community Member

Ah, I didn't know that I thought they all spoke back via WiFi.

Interesting regarding the ZigBee system, I wonder then if it would be possible for a 3rd party to make a "works with google" version of their ZigBee connected heat sensor.

If they could then they would capture anyone in Scotland who already has a wired nest setup, as they would only need one new device. 

NickB
Community Member

After a bit a digging it turns out that Next Protect use 'Weave' which is based on IEEE 802.15.4, and although similar to Zigbee is not the same thing.

So it's seems unlikely that any 3rd party Heat Sensor that are compatible with Nest Protect will be immediately forthcoming. 😞

RachelC
Community Manager (Admin)
Community Manager (Admin)

Hey everyone, thanks for all the helpful feedback and questions shared so far. I want to clarify that this legislation change affects all smoke alarms, not just Nest Protect. 

Nest Protect doesn’t become defective after the new Scottish regulation comes into effect and will continue to work as intended. However, it will not meet the new mandatory requirements for households. 

I know many of you are concerned about refunds and our team is happy to help in whatever way we can. If you have purchased your Nest Protect on Google Store,  please reach out to our support team for recommended next steps and check your eligibility for a refund.

jss32
Community Member

Yes it affects all smoke alarms… but as far as I’ve found Nest Protect is the ONLY system not to have a heat-only sensor as part of the range. That’s why we’re so annoyed.

Ballsy
Community Member

My apologies for saying that the product would be "defective", of course the system would work as it was intended.

What I should have said that it's not fit for purpose so it might as well be defective, well unless you want to keep the pretty £300+ night lights. Along with the new Scottish law compliant system my ceilings will look a bit cluttered.

 

As more and more people are buying/using more smart tech for their homes they generally would prefer to use the same brand system throughout rather than needing multiple hubs, multiple smart speakers, multiple smart displays, multiple apps etc. By not providing a product you are forcing people to use something else, of course the new smoke detectors don't need to be "smart" and connect with an app but I think most people would choose that option if it was available. People will naturally gravitate to the system that best meets their requirements which is now not nest/Google.

 

When I first read your response near the start of this thread "RachelC" I hoped that you were a bot because that comment about keeping the nest system running as well as the new system is one of the greediest things I've heard in a long time, I had hoped that no human would actually suggest something so absurd. If I thought the way you did I would have my old smoke detectors (they still work), my nest system (expensive nightlights) and then my new legal system. I don't think I could fit much more things on the ceiling.

I'm lucky in the fact that although I had the nest system selected and actually in my online shopping cart before I decided to do a final search and came across this thread so I didn't actually waste my money. I hope the people who have bought your system are able to get a refund.

 

Thanks for your time Rachel bot, ask your programmer for some better subroutines to better interact with the public in future.

 

 

Richard

Maxx
Community Member

As the Nest 2nd Generation smoke + Carbon Monoxide Alarm will no longer meet regulations, and thus will void any insurance claim, what is the best way to dispose of these units? Can they be recycled or is it ok to just dispose of them in the trash?

diaveldes
Community Member

Yes the system doesn't  become defective but as you rightly say it also DOES NOT meet the MANDATORY requirements of the Scottish regulations and so effectively becomes pointless as any home with this system will need to buy a second system that meets the requirements.

AFU
Community Member

Can anyone point to the exact wording that says these are non-compliant. I understand that it will be true in most cases but I really hope that in our specific case we're ok.

We bought 2 Nest Protects, one for our open plan kitchen / living room and one for the hall.  My reading of the regulations is that the one in the open-plan should be a heat alarm, but it doesn't say must. In legislation there is usually a distinction drawn between the meaning of those two word. 

diaveldes
Community Member

Here's the Web link.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/

I can't find a way to post a screen shot. It's specifically mentioned in the where and what to buy. 

 

Ballsy
Community Member

AFU
Community Member

Thanks, read that already and that's where it says "should", so as far as I'm concerned I'm ok, but I've emailed the Scottish government advice line in any case.

diaveldes
Community Member

"Should" do you have a context for the should? The requirement is mandatory and the Nest system doesn't meet the requirements? 

AFU
Community Member

My understanding is that yes, in most cases it doesn't comply as it's not a EN rated heat alarm. However, the regulations and guidance clearly state in the case of open plan:

Where a dwelling has an open plan layout, the open plan area will also be used as a circulation space (which could include a stair and landing). The location and siting of smoke alarms and heat detectors should follow both the guidance above and in Clause 2.11.7 to determine the appropriate number of alarms.

Where the access room is a kitchen, the type of detector should be carefully considered to reduce the likelihood of false alarms.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/2-fire/211-communication/

I'm 100% not saying "I'm right" here, I just think that for our specific case it could be argued that we are compliant. We've had 1 false alarm in the open plan in 2 years, and it was pretty smokey! 

 

Also, from here:

https://www.mygov.scot/home-fire-safety

Examples

If you live in a one bedroom flat, you will need two smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

A 3 bedroom, 2 storey house will need 3 smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have one alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm.

Whatever the size your home, if you have a carbon fuelled appliance like a boiler, you will also need a carbon monoxide detector.

Again, should, not must. Other bits of guidance clearly state that the choice of alarm should reflect the lowest risk of false alarm. We have a small kitchen in a big open plan area, I want that to be a smoke alarm, not a heat alarm as it would need to be quite a fire before the heat alarm detected it.