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Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

RachelC
Googler
Googler

Hey everyone, 

I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and smoke alarms. Nest Protect cannot function as a heat alarm due to specific hardware and functional requirements of those devices. So, beginning February 2022,  Nest Protects will not meet these new requirements due lack of interconnection with a compatible heat alarm. 

At this time, there are no current plans to produce a heat alarm and we do understand this is not ideal for many of our Scottish customers, but you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm as an addition to your interconnected system. We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

We ask that you continue to refer to the guidance of your fire and local authorities and we’ll also share any updates and changes as they arise. 

Thanks,

Rachel

243 REPLIES 243

RachelC
Googler
Googler

Hey everyone, thanks for all the helpful feedback and questions shared so far. I want to clarify that this legislation change affects all smoke alarms, not just Nest Protect. 

Nest Protect doesn’t become defective after the new Scottish regulation comes into effect and will continue to work as intended. However, it will not meet the new mandatory requirements for households. 

I know many of you are concerned about refunds and our team is happy to help in whatever way we can. If you have purchased your Nest Protect on Google Store,  please reach out to our support team for recommended next steps and check your eligibility for a refund.

jss32
Community Member

Yes it affects all smoke alarms… but as far as I’ve found Nest Protect is the ONLY system not to have a heat-only sensor as part of the range. That’s why we’re so annoyed.

Ballsy
Community Member

My apologies for saying that the product would be "defective", of course the system would work as it was intended.

What I should have said that it's not fit for purpose so it might as well be defective, well unless you want to keep the pretty £300+ night lights. Along with the new Scottish law compliant system my ceilings will look a bit cluttered.

 

As more and more people are buying/using more smart tech for their homes they generally would prefer to use the same brand system throughout rather than needing multiple hubs, multiple smart speakers, multiple smart displays, multiple apps etc. By not providing a product you are forcing people to use something else, of course the new smoke detectors don't need to be "smart" and connect with an app but I think most people would choose that option if it was available. People will naturally gravitate to the system that best meets their requirements which is now not nest/Google.

 

When I first read your response near the start of this thread "RachelC" I hoped that you were a bot because that comment about keeping the nest system running as well as the new system is one of the greediest things I've heard in a long time, I had hoped that no human would actually suggest something so absurd. If I thought the way you did I would have my old smoke detectors (they still work), my nest system (expensive nightlights) and then my new legal system. I don't think I could fit much more things on the ceiling.

I'm lucky in the fact that although I had the nest system selected and actually in my online shopping cart before I decided to do a final search and came across this thread so I didn't actually waste my money. I hope the people who have bought your system are able to get a refund.

 

Thanks for your time Rachel bot, ask your programmer for some better subroutines to better interact with the public in future.

 

 

Richard

Maxx
Community Member

As the Nest 2nd Generation smoke + Carbon Monoxide Alarm will no longer meet regulations, and thus will void any insurance claim, what is the best way to dispose of these units? Can they be recycled or is it ok to just dispose of them in the trash?

DanCoco
Community Member

Good luck getting google to actually take these back for recycling, but maybe see if they'll email you a return shipping label. 

(In the us, smoke detector manufacturers must accept ionization alarms back for recycling. I tried returning a kiddie brand one once, they ask for your receipt.)

For proper disposal, they should be sent to an electronic waste stream for recycling and not thrown away. (Does ROHS apply to where you're located?)

Hi Rachael,

surely the smart people at google can put together a heat alarm that can be used in conjunction with nest protect and meet the regulations?

If they cared yes. 

I'm sure they could, but Scotland & the UK is a very small market for them. 

Personally, and I'm not an expert, just an ordinary citizen, I think it's the standard that's gone too far. It's almost impossible to guarantee compliance in some premises and the Nest alarms are good enough for most situations.

The BS standard also ignores the primary problem with most smoke alarms. In 1000 years' time there will be hundreds of billions of ionisation alarms, still with potentially dangerous emissions in the Americium-241 that powers most cheaper alarms. They're also not so good at detecting dangerous smouldering fires, apparently. 

Anyway, for now, the posters above are right, Google should withdraw the Nest alarms from the UK market and stop retailers defrauding people with expensive devices that do not meet the stupid standard. 

 

cskog
Community Member

It is not just UK. Much of the U.S. (I'm in New Hampshire) requires a heat detector in the garage. That detector must link to the other smoke detectors in the house. So nobody here in the Northeast can use Nest Protect either 😞

JASH
Community Member

Wait... Nest Protect Gen2 has a heat sensor built in to it so surely as long as you have one in the Kitchen it complies with the Scottish Governments new legislation? 

https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9251133?hl=en The legislation just says you need to have a heat detector in the kitchen.. it doesn't say it can't also detect for smoke and carbon monoxide. I bought/ installed the nest protect on this premis if someone from Google can check/ confirm. 

DeeBee
Community Member

The Scottish Government have highlighted that Nest Protect is not compliant (this would include Gen 1 & 2).

"Please note that the Nest Protect System will not meet the standard. This is because they do not meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard. British Standard (BS 58############:2019) states that only heat alarms should be installed in kitchens.'

So in kitchens only a heat alarm can be fitted, along with a CO detector if required (which doesn't need to be interlinked).

It would appear to me that Google will have to redesign so that Gen 3 has a separate heat alarm, and all devices must have a sealed battery for the battery version of the device ... and perhaps "pathlight" would have to be removed from the battery version to ensure the battery lasts 10 years.

JASH
Community Member

Google advised that Gen2 did have a heat sensor here... "Heat sensor - Heat sensor enables Nest Protect to detect sudden rises in temperature." 

https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9251133?hl=en

This was the reason I bought them as they would be compliant with the government's legislation but it now looks like Google are back peddling on this info suggesting now it's wrong. I've contacted Nest support whom have now confirmed that gen2 can only detect smoke and carbon monoxide. They admit it does have a heat sensor but that it only detects smoke, which is nonsense if you read what they were advising previously.

Very misleading and would suggest Google respond. 

NickB
Community Member

See similar discussion here: https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Heat-Detectors-to-meet-new-legislation/td-p/5695...

Where people discuss google providing a firmware update to the gen2 to disable the smoke detector, so that only the heat detector operates, as required by the new Scottish legislation. But that has not happened, possibly because it's not possible.

Shame on you Google. I have 4x nest cameras, 3x nest protect, 2x nest thermostats and a pixel 6.  I'm going to Alexa ecosytem now. At least I'll be able to buy it all on Amazon as well. 

faust82
Community Member

"It won't be defective, it will just have to be replaced if you want to stay compliant".

 

There, I fixed it for you.

diaveldes
Community Member

Yes the system doesn't  become defective but as you rightly say it also DOES NOT meet the MANDATORY requirements of the Scottish regulations and so effectively becomes pointless as any home with this system will need to buy a second system that meets the requirements.

AFU
Community Member

Can anyone point to the exact wording that says these are non-compliant. I understand that it will be true in most cases but I really hope that in our specific case we're ok.

We bought 2 Nest Protects, one for our open plan kitchen / living room and one for the hall.  My reading of the regulations is that the one in the open-plan should be a heat alarm, but it doesn't say must. In legislation there is usually a distinction drawn between the meaning of those two word. 

diaveldes
Community Member

Here's the Web link.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/

I can't find a way to post a screen shot. It's specifically mentioned in the where and what to buy. 

 

Ballsy
Community Member

AFU
Community Member

Thanks, read that already and that's where it says "should", so as far as I'm concerned I'm ok, but I've emailed the Scottish government advice line in any case.

diaveldes
Community Member

"Should" do you have a context for the should? The requirement is mandatory and the Nest system doesn't meet the requirements? 

AFU
Community Member

My understanding is that yes, in most cases it doesn't comply as it's not a EN rated heat alarm. However, the regulations and guidance clearly state in the case of open plan:

Where a dwelling has an open plan layout, the open plan area will also be used as a circulation space (which could include a stair and landing). The location and siting of smoke alarms and heat detectors should follow both the guidance above and in Clause 2.11.7 to determine the appropriate number of alarms.

Where the access room is a kitchen, the type of detector should be carefully considered to reduce the likelihood of false alarms.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/2-fire/211-communication/

I'm 100% not saying "I'm right" here, I just think that for our specific case it could be argued that we are compliant. We've had 1 false alarm in the open plan in 2 years, and it was pretty smokey! 

 

Also, from here:

https://www.mygov.scot/home-fire-safety

Examples

If you live in a one bedroom flat, you will need two smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

A 3 bedroom, 2 storey house will need 3 smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have one alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm.

Whatever the size your home, if you have a carbon fuelled appliance like a boiler, you will also need a carbon monoxide detector.

Again, should, not must. Other bits of guidance clearly state that the choice of alarm should reflect the lowest risk of false alarm. We have a small kitchen in a big open plan area, I want that to be a smoke alarm, not a heat alarm as it would need to be quite a fire before the heat alarm detected it.

Maxx
Community Member

It clearly says need...

What you need to do

If you are a homeowner, it's your responsibility to make sure your home meets the new fire alarms standard.

By February 2022 every home will need to have:

  • 1 smoke alarm in the room you spend most of the day, usually your living room
  • 1 smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings
  • 1 heat alarm in the kitchen

All smoke and heat alarms should be mounted on the ceiling and be interlinked.

DrDreMYI
Community Member

I see where you’re coming from but in legal terms “should” indicates an obligation. I also wouldn’t recommend that you base whether your house is insured on Symantics. Lastly, the Scottish government gave made it clear that nest is not currently compliant.

 

we just need to accept we’ve been abandoned by Google who took our money and ran for the hills.

 

I’ll be contacting Google to explain that I bought 4 protects with a stated lifespan in  our legal jurisdiction which requires their services to be only and available to deliver all capabilities of the device. In the same way that they should be expected to work as describe for a reasonable period of time… I feel it’s a reasonable expectation that they would ensure continued legal compliance in our jurisdiction or hear the burden of telling us their devices are no longer legal to use.

 

so which is it Google? Are you negligent in telling us the service we’ve paid for is no longer legal? Or are you negligent is not opening up the platform to allow other systems to fill the gap.

 

you could have done both of these with minimal effort.

NickB
Community Member

This page https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/ states:
"Please note that the Nest Protect System will not meet the standard. This is because they do not meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard. British Standard (BS 5839-6:2019) states that only heat alarms should be installed in kitchens."

I'm guessing you're assuming that use of the word 'should' instead of 'must' means you are ok?
Given that both the Scottish Government and Nest themselves have gone to lengths to specifically identify the Nest Protect as not meeting the standard required by the upcoming new law, that seems a tenuous assumption at best. It'll be interesting what further information you get in reply from the Scottish Government to your email....

AFU
Community Member

@NickB wrote:

This page https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/ states:
"Please note that the Nest Protect System will not meet the standard. This is because they do not meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard. British Standard (BS 5839-6:2019) states that only heat alarms should be installed in kitchens."

I'm guessing you're assuming that use of the word 'should' instead of 'must' means you are ok?
Given that both the Scottish Government and Nest themselves have gone to lengths to specifically identify the Nest Protect as not meeting the standard required by the new the law, that seems a tentative assumption at best. It'll be interesting what further information you'll get from the Scottish Government to your email....


Precisely. We have building warrant ongoing, so we'll see if that gets approved. If so, then all good.

NickB
Community Member

It's worth noting that above law does not come in to effect until February 2022, though at that point it applies to all homes, not just new/modified homes.

AFU
Community Member

True, but if we get the nod from building warrant I can't see how it could not then be deemed compliant? Certainly as far as insurance is concerned. 

NickB
Community Member

The building warrant will relate only to current law.
The new law, come February, is retroactive and applies to all homes, not just newly built or those having modifications done.

For example my home with 4 wired Nest alarms may comply with current laws, but come February if the above statement from Nest and that Scottish Government website are true then it will no longer be and I will need to replace Nest alarms with a compliant system.

Ballsy
Community Member

I've seen where you get the "should" but it says this:

 

"What you need to do

If you are a homeowner, it's your responsibility to make sure your home meets the new fire alarms standard.

 

By February 2022 every home will need to have:

 

one smoke alarm in the room you spend most of the day, usually your living room

one smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings

one heat alarm in the kitchen

All smoke and heat alarms should be mounted on the ceiling and be interlinked.

 

If you have a carbon-fuelled appliance, like a boiler, fire, heater or flue you must also have a carbon monoxide detector. This does not need to be linked to the fire alarms. "

AFU
Community Member

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have one alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm

Should, not must. Yes, it's very tenuous, but the law is always tested on these minutiae. 

 

Ballsy
Community Member

I think you're holding onto some sort of false hope bud, "should" implies obligation.

 

The alarms must meet "BS" standards which the nest products don't 🤷🏻‍♂️, even Nest themselves have said their products don't meet this. Regards of your building warrant getting "the nod" your home won't be insured properly or meet the new Scottish legislation.

AFU
Community Member

Quite possibly false hope...

But, Nest Protect is compliant as a smoke alarm, just not a heat detector: 

Google Nest Protect has been tested to comply with certification standards in various regions and countries including the United States, Canada, the European Union, the United Kingdom and Australia.

The reliability of your smoke and carbon monoxide alarm is critical to your safety. Certification is a rigorous process, and Protect’s specifications were filed with leading safety certification agencies.

Nest Protect complies with the following smoke and carbon monoxide alarm standards:

  • UL 2034, 4th edition – 'Single and multiple station carbon monoxide alarms'
  • UL 217, 8th edition – 'Smoke alarms'
  • CSA 6.19-17 – 'Residential carbon monoxide alarming devices'
  • CAN/ULC-S531-14 – 'Standard for smoke alarms'
  • EN-14604:2005 – 'Smoke alarm devices'
  • EN-50291-1:2018 – 'Electrical apparatus for the detection of carbon monoxide in domestic premises'
  • AS 3786-2014 – 'Smoke alarms using scattered light, transmitted light or ionisation'

NickB
Community Member

The reason they will not comply with the new law come February is that they do not comply with BS 5839-6:2019, as stated by both Nest themselves and the Scottish Government.

diaveldes
Community Member

Unfortunately unless someone lives in a house without a kitchen (don't know of any personally) then it is no use in Scotland. 

AFU
Community Member

No response yet from the Scottish Government, but our insurance has confirmed they don't care and will still cover us, so I'm not throwing them out yet. 

ZombieBoy
Community Member

Given that we're all here because Nest Smoke Detectors aren't fit for purpose, and were an utter waste of money, what are people looking at as a replacement for them? I certainly don't want to be burned a second time, and I think Google owe us an opportunity to discuss how we can legally protect our homes after buying Nest.

Any recommendations?

We can only wish. Google won’t do sh*t

Tinsoldier82
Community Member

Ridiculous as the owner of 7 nest protects I am absolutely outraged

GeoffC
Community Member

mmm.

 

Good job my nest protects have started to refuse to connect to my router, and I ended up on googlenest looking for a solution.

Only to discover I'm wasting my time!

As someone else has asked, what options do we have in replacement?  I have 10 units destined to become ceiling lights, if only they were powerful enough to allow me to use them jnstead of the ceiling lights.