Home/Away Assist, returning home always stuck in eco mode

[Dawdie]

So I have 2 nest thermostats which are controlled with Home/Away. Whenever I go out the thermostat goes into eco as expected. Whenever I return home the app shows "Home" and so does the log so it defintatly knows I have returned, but the thermostat however is still stuck in "Eco" mode till I manually turn it off.

I have all the "learning" stuff off (Auto Schedule/True Radiant) so I have no idea what I need to do to fix this aside from just turning home/away off and putting the old thermostats back in.

Potential fix (using google home not the nest app) https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Thermostats/Home-Away-Assist-returning-home-always-stuck...

[jrawle]

It's one thing to get a poor review in a column. What I am talking about is the consumer troubleshooting column where they contact a company and say "I'm a journalist working for The (Newspaper) and we have a letter from Mr J explaining how your products and customer service are awful. Would you like to sort things out?" Almost always, a senior person at the company intervenes and the problem is solves immediately, despite the poor person who wrote in having been trying to achieve the same thing for months but hitting a brick wall.

This sort of column (if links are allowed):

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/feb/08/my-iphone-said-no-to-my-70-railcard-and-i-cant-get-a-r...

[jrawle]

I guess this is related, in a small local newspaper:

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/faulty-google-nest-thermostat-leaves-6451728

[Midjet76]

Good link, I'll forward it when I contact the magazine article writer for an update....

[Midjet76]

@LifeonMarsand @islandniles read this slowly.....

As @Iany1954  and I try to advise, it's quite understandable the confusion at times when working with Nest and SST, BUT, as lany says Ignore what's showing in nest from a home/away status point of view, from my POV  this part, was working when using Nest ONLY but wasn't working with Heat/ECO.

HOWEVER, when using SST and Nest, I found that Nest no longer switched between Home/away and tended to show as Home regardless of actual status and no "Activity" being recorded in the Nest heating settings, because SST is bypassing this and communicating directly? with the Thermostat and therefore correctly assigning Heat or ECO mode.  So Home/Away is irrelevant in Nest.

The important thing is that Heat/Eco works properly, which it will if configured correctly and as long as iPhone is 15.3 etc.  Haven't heard of any issues with Android.

Other things that need to be enabled to make this work properly is GPS needs to be on all the time for the Geofencing to work.  And both Nest and SST need to be enabled to Access Location "All the Time" in Settings, rather than only while using the app.

[LifeonMars]

@Midjet76and@Iany1954  Thank you,  After following the latest advice  and your explanation  and seeing photos on this thread I managed to get SST to work correctly , Thank you for explaining . 

[Midjet76]

On a slightly different tack, I had a semi drunken light bulb moment, where if I start a link in this thread to the idiots guide that I previously attempted but then get input from anyone else here to "perfect" it we could end up with a useful guide as there are more people joining our ranks of the disenchanted.  Then when we agree it's user friendly we could start a New Thread with a snappy title and if it could be pinned to the top of the forum, even better.

Oh I also had a separate rant aimed at one of the "specialists" after they were talking about locking the thread then I realised it was one of the other threads where it did make sense to lock it.... I had referred the OP to come here for more support....

Apologies to the specialist if they saw it.

Just hope they don't think that our "work around" constitutes a "solution" because it doesn't.

[sboden2315]

I think what all of you have done is wonderful and I applaud you.  I tried to explain to Google support that what we want are helpful guides that (work!!) and explain "if this is the outcome you want these are the settings in Home and in Nest to enable.  Then set your  phone settings to xxx - pretty much what all of you have done.  So far no luck....

[jrawle]

I appreciate what people have done, finding ways to work around the issue using Samsung SmartThings or whatever. However, it's getting a bit off-topic now, and such a "solution" means Google are threatening to close down the thread! I would like to see Nest working properly again as it did before November. I can always work out hacks, but I want it fixed! Could I suggest the thread should stay on topic reporting issues with Nest? I keep having to unsubscribe because of the huge volume of SST messages.

[islandniles]

It’s only ‘off-topic’ because it’s literally the only way to get the auto Home/Away function of the NLT to work properly since November.

People are having to find workarounds because there’s absolutely nothing that can be done from a user perspective to fix it, and Google have shown no interest in even acknowledging that there’s an issue.

[Midjet76]

My mistake, it was another similar thread, that was correctly closed and I pointed them here anyway as the solution to the query would have probably landed them here anyway. The increased traffic is because people are trying to adopt the work around and this throws up more questions, hence my suggestion for a "comprehensive idiots guide" summarising (lol) the key points here.  Time consuming perhaps but with input from us all it should be doable. Then hopefully we can reduce the traffic whilst still keeping the thread alive until we're happy with a real and lasting solution.

[islandniles]

Re the idea above of trying to get some sort of consumer affairs attention, I have emailed The Verge. I outlined the issue, explained that it ruins one of the NLT's key features, linked to this thread, and highlighted Google's responses (basic troubleshooting tips, failure to admit a problem, advice to buy a new thermostat, advice to just use it manually). I doubt they'll pick it up but it would be great if they did, if only because Google would likely take it a bit more seriously and implement a fix.

[LifeonMars]

By Using  a third party app Samsung Smart Things App and setting up routines on SST the Nest app will show/Home Away and go into and out of Eco.  Using iPhone  iOS  15.3   Thank you to everyone on this thread for assisting,  by informing how to set up routines etc 

Let's hope Google Nest get their act together and get the Nest Thermostat working correctly without 3rd party apps.

[steve99uk]

For those that are iOS we have one phone on the 15.4 beta version and SST still works so when it goes GA and gets rolled out to everyone you should all still be OK.

[Steve59]

I now also have the Nest app set as before so at least the status will change from Home to Away, and am now using SST with routine to change the Heat to Eco status (and also setting SST to Home or Away)shame we have to use a third party app, but at least this way I have a working reliable system

[Midjet76]

So have you got use mobile phone location on in the Nest app? And does that mean you have activity history reporting as well as the energy history?

[Iany1954]

Yes, leave nest set as it was before November. Location on always and it will do Home/Away correctly and SST will set Nest heat/eco correctly as Nest doesn’t.

[Midjet76]

But will only report correctly for my wife's phone? as the Nest account holder. I'm assuming not for me just using SST only.

Before November 2021 we were using Nest and Google Home to have both phones working with Home/Away properly. Now like i was trying to ask yourself and Steve 59, with just Nest and SST, I'm assuming (hoping) that if Wife's phone (Nest app account) goes away but leaves me home SST will still know I'm home, but Nest App will show as away on my wife's phone, due to SST not interacting with Nest app, and the opposite if I'm away Nest app will report her as home. 

But also, I'm hoping that when I'm home that heating will still kick in due to SST knowing I'm home. Because SST doesn't communicate with Nest app .

I think that covers it. 

Sorry if I'm confusing those still struggling to get their heads around this. That's another reason why putting and idiots guide is going to prove to be a challenge because of different setups.

[Steve59]

Yes Nest app uses phone location as SST and all works as it should if Google were to sort the issue 

[Midjet76]

Just re read your above reply, should that read Nest app uses phone location FROM SST?  I'm only asking because we have 2 phones but only one account can be registered in Nest. So if i leave location by wife's phone which is the Nest account holder atm, then it will show away when we're both away but won't work properly if only one of us leave. To me it makes sense to just use SST location only. However that said I'm still experimenting to see how it reacts over the next few days with location in in Nest and SST to see what happens when only one of us leaves there house. But as Lany says SST only changes the Heat/Eco state it doesn't affect how the Nest app reports. So I think I know what to expect lol.

[Steve59]

Nest App and SST are both my accounts with other members of the family invited to the apps, so Nest works independently to SST. I use them both so that both show us as away, but as we know we need SST for the Eco mode switching

[Midjet76]

You see this is where it gets messy lol. Where you say other family members are invited to the apps, afaik only one person can access nest app so only app I'm invited to is SST , prior to using SST family members could only be invited through Google Home. And all works to a satisfactory level ie eco/heat switching correctly IF location is off in Nest and no Google Home installed...

Today, I've activated it midway through the morning, to test it and it's been very weird. First time we went out to do shopping it was all working as you would report it. But this afternoon we went out again and when I remembered to check our phones, get this, Nest was showing away and eco, BUT, both of our SST apps were showing idle and heat. I'm going to leave it as it is to check how it responds when just one of us leaves tomorrow as per one of my other posts, But it looks like I can't leave it setup like it was prior to November 2021. That's why the first time I tried SST it didn't work right.... Perhaps then, different phones work slightly differently... Perhaps.

It's no big deal, if all else fails, I'll go back to turning off location in Nest and rely solely on SST as I have been doing before today.

[BrianDarby]

I’ve had to use a third party app virtually since I bought the device a good 4-5 years ago - their geofence has always been crap and rather American in its assumptions - make that switching the heating or cooling on as soon as you get home (and not, say, a lot earlier) is usable 

[Midjet76]

I've just also remembered folks that I escalated a complaint on the 17th January 2022 after getting nowhere with the Google Rep on the phone when demanding a refund and being told "We don't do refunds"

Oh and for Dracos here's the ref no 7 - 5 1 7 8 0 0 0 0 3 1 9 3 1  

So here's what I wrote:-

As per our previous online chat I wish to escalate my complaint to whoever can expedite a full and speedy refund for your product which is not “Smart” at all

Google Nest Thermostat installed Aug 2020 and was working fine till Nov2021.

Home/Assist allows the user to use mobile phones geofencing to turn heating to ECO mode when the house is empty and to Heat Mode when a phone returns to the property.

Stopped working properly Nov.2021 There's a whole group dedicated to trying to resolve this but you aren't accepting any responsibility  saying that it's normal to take 1 to 3 hours to switch between the 2 modes, whereas prior to November the change was quite quick ie within minutes of looking and the app establishing contact the switch to Eco was obvious.

  So now we have a situation where heating is on while we're away and then either we would have to manually use the app to turn the Thermostat to ECO or if forgotten it might eventually turn to ECO.  Then, on returning home the Thermostat is stuck in ECO mode even as the temp might be well below what is desirable.

 So again it has to be manually manipulated to turn the heat back on.  The whole point of buying such an expensive piece of kit is to try and save money by having the system to be fine tuned and automated.  The product as is isn't fit for purpose as a "Smart" Thermostat.  It performs perfectly well as a "dumb" thermostat but as such doesn't warranty the hefty price tag.

After spending hours speaking and texting to Googles tech and exhausted all options I still have a dumb thermostat and have asked via phone calls and chats for a full refund.  The phone call I had told me I had to complain online for a refund then when I went online and spent another hour wrangling with the Google operative I was told we don't do refunds. So your colleagues just have me going around in circles.

It is absolutely disgraceful that such a large company can treat it's customers with so much contempt.

Please see the other comments with regards to the same issues in this group.

https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Thermostats/Home-Away-Assist-returning-home-always-stuck...

According to your advertising “The 3rd-generation Nest Thermostat learns the temperatures that you like, turns itself down when you’re away and connects to your phone. It has a big, sharp display. It controls your hot water tank. And it helps save energy. That’s the most beautiful part.”  It fails to mention that it might take 1 to 3 hours to turn the heat down/off and is therefore heating an empty house.  It also says “Saving energy starts with your thermostat.

Your thermostat controls 60% of your energy bill. So shouldn't it help you save energy? The Nest Thermostat does.  How can it save me all this money if it’s on for hours when no one’s home?

I sincerely hope you can help me with this matter at a time when it is all the more important that we can save as much energy as possible.  That is after all why I bought the Nest in the first place..

I request a full refund for this product and also some assurance that this matter will be looked into and a more satisfactory resolution achieved for the others out there who have the same problem as there quite clearly is an issue that you are turning a blind eye to.

Regards

Mark Thompson

From: ######### <#########>
Sent: 17 January 20############:14
To: midjet76
Subject: Your Google Support Enquiry: Case ID [7-############1931]

Hello Mark,

This is Kamila. Thanks for reaching out to the Google Nest Customer Care Team.

For your reference your case number is 7-############1931. If you need more help, you can contact us again and reference this case number or reply to this email to reopen your case.

Have a new question? There are lots of ways to get back in touch with us below.

[Midjet76]

@Patrick3Read thru this thread thoroughly, the more recent posts over the last few weeks will be most illuminating.

Basically there is still no fix and no real expression of understanding from Google, instead they prefer to send us all individually on a wild goose chase contacting support teams, sending them screenshot of numerous setting with days delays before they then ask you for more screenshots etc etc.

There is a workaround for Iphone users on version 15.3 and for Android users using Samsung Smart Things in a similar manner to Google Home, but for quite a few of us now with a bit of trial and error we are getting the Heat/Eco settings to switch appropriately when Home/Away.

[islandniles]

Honestly, this continued line from Google about it being normal to take 1-3 hours to switch to Eco is ludicrous, and also misunderstands the issue. I do remember that when I first started using the thermostat, it sometimes took a little while to go into AWAY, and I guess this was sort of a learning period so it wasn't constantly switching states if I briefly left the house. But the point is, whenever it switched to Away, it would then reliably switch to Eco. That's how it should work, and that's how it's advertised to work, even in the Nest app.

Saying that it's normal behaviour for the reverse is even more outlandish. So, you return home, the app switches to Home, and it's supposedly perfectly normal that the thermostat doesn't switch back to Heat for THREE HOURS? Sure, I'd love to sit in a freezing house for three hours when the app knows I'm at home! Complete nonsense, and not how it's supposed to work at all. (Remember, there is no downside to the thermostat switching back to Heat mode immediately when you get home; if the house is up to the set temperature, the heating won't switch on anyway.)

Also, even the explanation is a lie. Mine has cheerfully heated the empty house for over eight hours several times, despite knowing that nobody is at home for the entire time.

I'm still having success with SST but it shouldn't be necessary. The thermostat should work as advertised (and as it used to) without hacky workarounds. 

[Steve59]

SST changes the state the minute the phone(s) are out side of the set area !

[Steve59]

Correction, SST it’s not an instant change, but it does change, I guess that the geofencing and servers scanning for updates

[Midjet76]

But it's as near as dam n it. We've just gone for a walk and as soon as we were out side of the Geofencing ring we got the notification that were away and eco mode set.

[JoyR]

How do you get the notifications?  I can’t seem to find the setting on the SST app.  

[Midjet76]

Easy, go to routine, then the + for the Then bit, then notify someone...

Also same if you want to add home away, do same again and use change this locations mode for each of your routines

[DavidE]

The nest commercial states among its benefits that it "Won't waste energy when you're out", and their monthly report emails trumpet how much energy we're saving with pretty green leaf icons. Maybe we should remind them of that next time a support agent tells us it's normal for it to take up to three hours to shut off the heat after it knows we're out. Not so "smart".

I'm not interested in using SST as a work-around, I want Google/Nest to fix the thermostat software to work like it should, and used to.

[Midjet76]

I've already highlighted this to them, they're not interested. We're using the workaround to do exactly that, try and save money.  We all want what you want but this had been going on for so long without even a hint that they're looking into our concerns, so to not use SST is going to cost you more. None of us are happy with this situation but are glad that there is a workaround that actually works for quite a few of us now. We need to get some kind of consumer champion on the case .

[Midjet76]

I've just noticed something else that SST does better than the Nest app.  Under the Menu option in SST there are Notifications and History for the last 7 days, probably too much info, plus, you can see the info for the actual day that you're looking for the History which Nest doesn't do, but which people have asked for in the feedback comments on Google Play Store.

[Steve59]

I am well happy with SST being used to overcome Googles short comings (their loss) as I like the notifications you can add to the routines to have it tell you when the Eco has been activated on leaving the area

mine is set to also changes the SST status to Home and Away as well

[islandniles]

I’ve also found it runs the routine pretty much as soon as you leave or enter the geofence. It’s really good!

Now that I’ve established it’s working correctly, I’ve added my wife’s phone and altered the routines slightly, so that Eco activates if BOTH phones leave the geofence, and Heat activates if EITHER phone enters it (which is how Nest should work, of course, and used to). So hopefully it’ll continue to work flawlessly. 

[steve99uk]

Mine is working fine with this exact same set up / routines. 

[Midjet76]

@Steve59and @lany1954 I have tried leaving pre Nov 21 settings enabled, but for some reason, my setup does not like location enabled in Nest, so I am left with the Nest App as always showing Home and just using SST as Heat/Eco controller.

But as when I first got it working it does what I need it to do , same as everyone else.

[islandniles]

I also have all the location stuff switched off in Nest, to avoid any conflicts. I don’t care if the home status in the Nest app is incorrect, as long as the thermostat switches modes correctly (as it does using SST).

[Midjet76]

Totally agree.  Glad you finally got there LOL.

It's great to see so many people find this thread and find the work around helps.

Since I've been meddling trying to get it perfect, I've noticed my battery is draining a lot quicker than previously, could it be location running on both apps?, this is beyond my understanding.,this is aimed the wider community....

[Midjet76]

I have contacted BBC TV Watchdog, dunno if it's even still running but there was a form available for completion so I've filled it in anyway. i wrote:-

Nest thermostat not working as it should. Will accurately report when the user(s) are home or away, but doesn't change the thermostat into the corresponding eco or heat mode. Tech support has us users running around in circles checking this and checking that and sending screenshot etc of our settings. Then we're being told that it's acceptable that it can take up to 3 hours for the thermostat to change from heat to eco and vice versa which it might eventually do. The whole point of the Nest is that it's supposed to be smart and it clearly isn't fit for purpose. While it's faulty we can check the app while we're away from home and can see an empty house being heated. Then when we come home if it had finally gone into eco mode we can then be in a cold house if we don't manually turn it back to heating. See our frustration on Google user group, plus our workaround which while useful is still unacceptable. https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Thermostats/Home-Away-Assist-returning-home-always-stuck.... Also checkout the one star ratings on Amazon which suggests that this has been an ongoing problem for a lot longer.
Also I have personally asked for my complaint to be escalated with no response forthcoming and have also asked for a refund as not fit for purpose and was told flatly after again being passed from pillar to post and again told it working within acceptable parameters, i was told that "we don't do refunds". I would be very grateful if you could take up our cause as this is not a cheap pieces of tech .
Regards
Mark T