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Required feature for effective TrueRadiant heating with radiators

Olafmol
Community Member

Hello, after months of struggling with my Nest gen3 EU in TrueRadiant setting, i discovered a thing that is missing in the Nest settings, and is really required to make TrueRadiant work with the new generation of efficient modulating low temperature heaters/boilers:

I have a house with regular radiators, and a gas-powered heater/boiler. The Nest is connected through OpenTherm(OT) and i have TrueRadiant enabled to make sure heating is as efficient as possible.

The reality is that the new generation of modern heaters have a minimum power (kW) that is, even at the lowest setting, already hotter than what the Nest TrueRadiant algorithm is requesting for water-temperature when it's getting close to the requested temperature (setpoint).

F.e. in my case, when TrueRadiant detects it's close to setpoint, it requests a lower temperature water, about 40 degrees Celcius. But with a radiator-based system, this is simply to low to heat up the radiators effectively. What happens is that the radiators stay to cold, the house doesn't heat up to the target temperature, and the heat cannot get out of the heater/burner, which will shut down when there is to much heat building up inside. 

After a safety period, the heater will try again, as the TrueRadiant algorithm is still trying to increase the heat by requesting low-temp water, and the same thing will happen over and over again: radiators not heating up enough (they typically need around 50 degrees C of hot water flowing through them at a minimum to do their job), and the boiler shutting down due to internal overheating.

The solution is simple: set a minimum temperature threshold for the requested water temperature. Some newer/more advanced heaters/boilers (like my Intergas Xtreme 30) have the option in their advanced service menu to increase this threshold. But not all (most?) heaters have this.

 

So, it would be the best option if you could set this minimum requested water temperature in the Nest TrueRadiant settings. This will solve a lot of problems.

 

So my suggestion to the Google Nest team is to add this feature to the TrueRadiant settings, maybe in an advanced/pro menu, which could also include max thresholds, temp sensor offsets, reset learning data (as this is not possible, even with a full factory reset) etc.

 

NB It's my take that the TrueRadiant algorithm was designed with floor-heating systems, which run at a much lower water-temperature. For radiators (classic ones, not the more modern low-temp ones, that need a very good isolated space anyway) this minimal temperature that is requested by TrueRadiant is simply way to low, and will shut down the system. 

9 REPLIES 9

Martijn___
Community Member

The minimum water temperature setting is something I am also looking for.

As I have floor heating and a very well insulated house, I would like to run with 30-35C water through the floor to make the boiler more efficient. The nest V3 looks to have a non adjustable 40C lowest temperature. This does not make sense.

My Nest Gen 3 EU requests 30C at the last stages of a heating cycle with TrueRadiant enabled. 
And you can use the “supply temperature” setting to set the starting or continuous request temperature, depending on trueradiant on or off. 

Hallo Olaf,

Where do you find a "supply temperature"? Only temperature that I can set is a temperature when thermostat is in on/off mode instead of opentherm. But don't know what it does.

Now it is set as opentherm. Nest will modulate, but not lower than 40C. I have set max 35C on boiler, so system is always 35.

 

I'm not sure what the English menu options are, but as i'm Dutch, for me it's under "apparatuur" and then continue into the settings wizard. Hope that works for you. I'm not sure why 40C is your minimum, maybe it's the Nest learning algorithms, and a factory reset might help? 

Vladut
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hi there, just checking in with you. Did you manage to check the previous message?

AlexD
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hey there, I haven't heard from you in a while so I'll be locking this thread. If you have any new issues, updates or just a discussion topic, feel free to start a new thread in the community. Thanks, AlexD.

AndaD
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

@Olafmol

 

Thanks a lot for your interest in our product and also for sharing your thoughts on this matter. We really appreciate our customer's point of view so as we want to make it right to you, I'll pass all the details you and the other participants provided to the department in charge of these situations. I'll take your feedback as a future reference for improvements for our products. 

 

Indeed, the OpenTherm type of boiler can control both your boiler’s domestic hot water temperature, as well as the temperature of the water used to heat your home. When they're on, they will always heat the water used to warm your home to the same preset temperature, which isn’t always the most efficient way to keep you comfortable. 

 

However, newer boilers allow thermostats to tell them when to adjust their heating water temperature and how high to set it. The boiler will use more or less gas, as appropriate, to reach the water temperature set by the thermostat.

 

OpenTherm to control modulating boilers. The Nest thermostat’s learning capabilities and advanced software algorithms like Auto-Schedule and True Radiant, ​account for things like home occupancy, current weather, temperature inside your home, temperature you’ve set and more to control your modulating boiler.

 

Please find more about this here https://goo.gle/3YopDgf

Olafmol
Community Member

This is exactly what I am trying to point out: True Radiant is not "advanced" at all, as there is no way to configure it in a way that's suitable for the required situation. F.e. the minimum requested supply temperature would be really helpful to have, as iron radiators simply don't perform with 30C (as my TrueRadiant algorithm tries to request). Also hysteresis settings around setpoint, and max number of on/off cycles for the non-TrueRadiant settings would be very welcome. And last: a way to reset the learning data (it's really impossible to do so, i've tried EVERYTHING, it seems to be connected to the hardware unique ID of the thermostat) would be welcome.

Vladut
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

 Thanks for letting us know. We are always looking for ways to improve our services and products. For further assistance use this link to get in touch with us: https://goo.gle/3PAjg5D