google hub won't connect after setting up sleep sensing when using custom DNS

[hayzeus]

On my network, I do not allow any port 53 tcp/udp out my internal network for privacy reasons.  I have 2 internal dns servers that run dns-over-https.  All my internal devices are set to use the two internal DNS servers for name resolution.  

My daughter recently started setting up sleep sense on her google hub but stopped.  Ever since then, the google hub will no longer connect to the internet unless I allow the google hub to initiate dns queries to whatever DNS servers it wants to query, it refuses to query the DNS servers that are given to it via my dhcp settings and I see no queries from the IP address of the google hub to my internal dns servers.

Please fix this problem so that the device will respect the dhcp dns settings and query the dns server that it is supposed to.  It seems like DNS might be hard coded for some reason with sleep sense.

[Muddi · Accepted solution]

Hey folks,

I have some great news to share! This issue on Nest Hub (2nd gen) should now be resolved and you can get back using your devices with a custom DNS network. If for some reason you’re still experiencing problems, please update this thread and let us know.

Cheers,

Muddi

[hayzeus]

To clarify, my 2 DNS servers run DoH to resolve DNS upstream and out of my network but act as normal dns servers to anything internal by responding to udp 53 queries.

My DHCP settings pass out 192.168.1.53 and 192.168.1.54 as dns servers for all the dhcp clients to use.

The google hub will not even query 192.168.1.53-54.  It tries to query 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 on port 53 which I block.  Once I allow the google hub to pass udp53 to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 in my firewall, then the google hub starts working, otherwise it just won't connect to the internet and gives me a qr code to scan.

[hayzeus]

How can I reach anyone in google that can actually fix this?  

Can anyone else confirm that the hub does not respect the dns servers from the dhcp settings and just queries 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4?

So far, it just seems like the hub is coded to not respect dhcp settings, pretty bad choice of engineering an internet device.

[Princesss]

Hi hayzeus,

Thanks for visiting the Community. 

We appreciate all the details you've shared. Google Nest speakers requires these settings for a better connection.

Router Settings

• Channel interference (channel congestion from too many devices, optimal channels for 2.4GHz is 1,6, or 11)
• UPnP should be enabled.
• AP Isolation disabled.
• Make sure a VPN or Proxy Server is not configured on the network.
• Confirm distance between router, setup device and Google Home are optimal.
• MAC Filtering should not be enabled on the router.

Preferred DNS Settings

• 8.8.8.8
• 8.8.4.4

Hope this helps.

Best,

Princess

[hayzeus]

Thanks for your reply, but it doesn't address my problem.  

For me, it seems having dns set to my own DNS servers is not respected nor recognized on the hub.  Allowing outbound DNS queries to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 is not a matter of getting a BETTER connection, it is the ONLY way the hub will connect.

Having 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 is not preferred, it is MANDATORY.

This needs to be changed as every device that I have owned and ever owned that connects to the internet respects and uses DNS servers assigned via DHCP except for the google hub.

[Princesss]

Hi hayzeus,

Thanks for your input. I totally understand that you want to use other DNS settings, however as of this moment, those are the only DNS that works with any Google Nest speakers. In line with this, we’d like to take the opportunity to encourage you by sending feedback to what you think are the things that we can add up and improve to provide a better experience when using your Google Nest display. 

Best,

Princess

[hayzeus]

The fact that it worked until recently shows that a change was implemented to disrespect DNS settings from DHCP.  If this change can be implemented, it can be undone as it should be trivial.  I can't think of a legitimate reason for any device to disrespect DHCP settings of any type, only dubious reasons.   I am not asking for the world here.  I am just asking that the google hub worked as it did recently and that moving forward that it does what almost all internet connected devices do, which is respect DHCP settings.

[lucidelirium]

Same experience here! It seems a software update removed the capability to use DNS other than Google's. I don't allow this on my home network for similar reasons as yourself. A shame... my Nest Hub is a paper weight until this is resolved. A phone call to support did nothing to resolve this either.

[Princesss]

Hi folks,

We know that you all have a preferred setup or settings on your network, however, those are the only set up that works with all Google Nest speakers. I would recommend you to send us a feedback-- we're always looking to improve our devices.

Best,

Princess

[lucidelirium]

Sure, how do you send feedback? Is it from the device that currently doesn't work?

[Princesss]

Hi lucidelirium,

To send a feedback, you can follow the steps on this link: https://goo.gle/2NvQG6R

Best,

Princess

[lucidelirium]

Full link, please.

[Princesss]

Hi lucidelirium,

Here's the complete link for you to send a feedback.

Best,

Princess

[hayzeus]

That is a URL shortener/obfuscator, I believe lucidelirium is asking for the full link without any redirects via web server redirects or dns cnames or any other means.

Regarding your response about how that is the only way it will work is a little perplexing as it did work just fine for over a year until recently.

Again, most internet connected devices use DHCP to get their IP, gateway, dns server values, and depending on the admin, various other settings.  It is very curious as to why google chose to stop respecting DNS server values from DHCP in whatever update that is part of a staged rollout.

Regarding feedback, I have temporarily allowed my hubs to pass DNS queries out my network to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 just to provide feedback.  I am not sure why you are so adamant about us providing feedback to "improve" the device when this is a pretty big flaw/bug that should be fixed and not "improved".  The google hub does not respect DNS settings via DHCP which it did before.  It seems like something got broke and needs to fixed.  This is not a feature request, or a user experience improvement.  This is basic functionality that worked but now doesn't.   This request needs to get to dev, not marketing.

If there is reason as to why this functionality was removed, some transparency would be nice as to why; hopefully offers for refunds for those of us that utilize this functionality on our network will also follow if there is no plan to fix the devices.  These google hubs are paperweights now.

I can't think of a legitimate reason for this change.  I can at best think of gray reasons and at worst malicious intent for a device to not respect DHCP settings.

[Princesss]

Hi hayzeus,

We respect your opinion and we'd be glad to assist you further with this. Kindly fill out this form with all the needed information then let me know once done.

Best,

Princess

[hayzeus]

Done!  Thanks Princess.

[Jake]

Hey hayzeus,

Thank you so much for filling out the form. I wanted to jump in, and let you know that our Team will be in contact with you over the next 24 hours via email. Please be on the lookout for that, and let us know if you have any trouble seeing that.

Best regards,

Jake

[gh0st]

I was hoping I wasn't the only one who was experiencing this. With my pihole internal to my network, everything seemed to be working and then all-of-a-sudden none of them work except for my Pixels, which work fine as they use whatever DNS server I tell them to.

This is not only not respecting DHCP settings (which AT&T has been found to hard-code their own DNS server to their devices, I expect things like this to break home automation), but it is also disrespectful to the paying customers (to quietly break stuff, knowing very well many people are out-of-warranty, just to possibly offer a newer product or service to them, or any other reason), is damaging to their whole community, and encourages risk.

Sure. I want to use the products. No I do not want Google to continue to gather my information for their internal uses unless I explicitly state I allow it. Google asks, as they are required to, if we consent to gathering your information. If you opt-out, you can still use their products. I am sure their workaround is to hope that forcing you to send ALL your DNS queries to their servers, all so they can continue circumventing their own agreements with their consumers and gather their data against their will. It is nefarious and is really frowned upon.

[drmosh]

If you are running your own firewall capable of interface NAT or Linux IPTABLES, you can just NAT any outgoing packets destined for 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 to your internal DNS server, that will solve the problem.

[lucidelirium]

Thank you! Replied in a different thread with a similar workaround using loopbacks on pihole.

[Princesss]

Hi everyone, 

@drmosh, thanks for sharing some tips.

@lucidelirium, glad that the workaround worked on your end.

I'll keep this case open for few more days while waiting for others to try the steps you shared.

Best,

Princess

[hayzeus]

Hi Princess,

The workarounds are not something most people can do.  The case should remain opened until the google hubs start respecting DNS server settings from DHCP.

[hayzeus]

Additionally, I have yet to receive an email from the support team after filling out the form, just wondering what is the status on that?

[Muddi]

Hey folks,

Apologize for the delays. Chiming in, to ensure everything is covered here. This has been forwarded to the team so we can check if there are alternative ways for the feature to work when using custom DNS. I'll make sure to get back on this thread as soon as I have more information to share.

@hayzeus: Your case has been forwarded to the team for further review.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Muddi]

Hey hayzeus,

Could you tell us the settings that you have on your router, including the customize DNS and port settings.

Looking forward to your response.

Cheers,

Muddi

[lucidelirium]

@Muddi Responding out of line but I think @hayzeus has the following:

Pi-hole #1  192.168.1.53

Pi-hole #2 192.168.1.54

Both servers are configured to forward to an upstream DNS-Over-HTTPS server.

Router is serving DHCP with only 192.168.1.53-54 for DNS.

Traffic destined to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 is denied.

Does this answer your questions? Pretty common setup.

[Muddi]

Hey lucidelirium,

Thanks for the information. This has been forwarded to the team and I will update this thread as I know more.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Muddi]

Hey folks,

Just a quick update. We have identified the issue and are working towards a stable solution. I'll make sure to update this thread as soon as I have more information to share.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Muddi · Accepted solution]

Hey folks,

I have some great news to share! This issue on Nest Hub (2nd gen) should now be resolved and you can get back using your devices with a custom DNS network. If for some reason you’re still experiencing problems, please update this thread and let us know.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Muddi]

Hey folks,

How was your device? Please confirm that you are able to connect your Nest Hub on a custom DNS network. If not, please let us know by updating the thread so we can assist you further.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Links2004 · Accepted solution]

I needed to do a DNAT setup for 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 to forward all requests to my local DNS server.
the nest hub still ignores the DNS set by DHCP server.
the interesting thing is that my chromecast does use the DNS server set in my DHCP server.

This is a workaround not a fix 😉 

[Muddi]

Hey Links2004,

To confirm, is it connecting to a different network like mobile hotspot? Please provide the following information below:

• Country
• Make and model of router
• Network provider
• Firmware version of Nest Hub

I'll wait for your response.

Cheers,

Muddi

[Links2004]

Country: Germany
Router: Linux VM on a Server (this is where the DNAT is setup to get it working)
Network provider: Vodafone
Mobile network: No (my WAN is coming via coaxial cable)
Systemfirmware: 309385

[Muddi]

Hey folks,

Thanks for updating the thread. Sorry to hear that you're still having the same issues. This has been forwarded to the team for additional review. Please make sure to provide the additional information below so we can further investigate the issue.

• Country
• Make and model of router
• Network provider
• Firmware version of Nest Hub

Cheers,

Muddi

[hayzeus]

USA

Irrelevant, custom DNS is what is not working

Irrelevant, custom DNS is what is not working

Firmware version:

309385

[Muddi]

Hey hayzeus,

I appreciate your time sending those information. This has been forwarded to the team, and I'll get back on this thread if we need more information.

Cheers,

Muddi

[brkaminski]

@Links2004can you share what your DNAT rule looks like? I've attempted to set this up on my firewall, but I'm not having any success.

[riccume]

Hello Links2004, does this setup still work for you? I just purchased two Nest Hubs and this setup works out of the box but after a few mins the Nest Hubs install an update and after the update they are no longer able to connect to the internet.

If I disable the Static IP Routing on my router, the Nest Hubs are again able to connect to the internet - so it would seem that forwarding their requests to the local DNS makes them unusable. All of my other Chromecast / Nest Hub (Gen 1) devices work fine with this setup...

Thanks!

[hayzeus]

Hi Muddi,

It still does not work for me, maybe there is a rolling update that still hasn't reached me but custom DNS still does NOT work.

[lucidelirium]

@Princesss 

I agree with @hayzeus . This is a workaround. Not a solution. The average user isn't going to be able to use these workarounds.