4th Gen Thermostat only allows one schedule for all modes

[DracoSolon]

So I just upgraded from a 3rd Gen to a 4th Gen Nest Learning Thermostat. It appears that you can only set one schedule for all modes. The 3rd gen used a separate schedule depending if the thermostat was on heat or cool mode. This is a huge problem. The app requires 3 degrees between the heat and cool setting. So that means for example if during the winter I want the temp to heat to 68 at 6:30 am then I can set that. But in the summer I want the system to cool to 68. But the app won't allow that. If the heat is set to 68 then the cool cannot go lower than 71. This does not make any sense. The time schedule and temps are the exact same for both modes. That's not how temperature and weather works. Often in the Summer in most of the US you have to start cooling earlier to a much lower temp than you might actually want in order for the house to actually be close to the temp you are actually comfortable at. Heat isn't even something you are concerned about. Why is it even there if the thermostat is in cool mode? Am I missing something here? Why are there no separate schedules for heating and cooling?

[HeyHoser78 · Accepted solution]

Draco brother,

I feel your pain!  An AI capable, 4th gen, $300, learning, smart thermostat should come with the capability you describe. 

Now I have to explain to my wife why her Christmas gift is less discerning than the builder grade device I ripped off the wall. At least it allowed 2 degrees F between settings.  

Google needs to push out a SW fix by midnight tonight as far as I'm concerned.  

[maedacortez]

Hi DracoSolon,

Thanks for reaching out! I understand that you need to add separate schedules for heating and cooling. I'm happy to assist you.

You can do this on your Google Nest Learning Thermostat (4th gen) by following these steps:

1. Open the Google Home app.
2. Select your thermostat.
3. Tap Schedules.
4. Tap Mode and select your preferred schedules for cooling or heating.

I recommend visiting Use Smart Schedule on your Nest Learning Thermostat (4th gen) To learn more about how schedules work.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Manuel

[DracoSolon]

So let me explain to you how that does not work. If you change the temp set points in either cool mode or heat mode it changes your temps on both modes. It doesn't matter what mode you are in the temps stay the same. It won't heat on cool mode or cool on heat mode, but let's stay you are in heat mode and you want to have the heat set to 68, then you can't have the cool set 68. The lowest you can have the cool set is 71. And if you go into the schedule and go to cool mode and you set the cool to 68, then the highest you can set the heat is to 65. So in the winter if you want the heat set to 68 that's fine, until the spring comes or you have a warm day (not uncommon at all in the US) and want to turn on the AC. So then when you turn on cool mode the temp is set 71 - but you want it set to 68. So then you have go into the schedule and reset the cooling temp to 68 (which then moved the heat temp down to 65). And then the next day when it gets cold again you have to switch to heat mode and reset the heat temp to 68 up from 65 because it system automatically had moved it to 65 when you set the cooling to 68. Because there's only one schedule. This was not a problem with the 3rd gen because cooling and heating had entirely separate scheduled.

[maedacortez]

Hi DracoSolon,

Thanks for your reply. Could you please send me a picture showing how it looks when you tried to add different schedules for both mods and it did not let you? Also, could you please send me a picture of your wires labels? this will help me to better understand your situation. 

I look forward to your response.

Regards,
Manuel

[DracoSolon]

Did you see my response?

[DracoSolon]

OK, I'm going to try to explain this again as best I can. 

To Start: The 4th Gen Nest does not allow different temperature settings for Cool Mode and Heat Mode. If you change the set points on one mode it changes on the other. I.E. you cannot have it set to Cool to 68 and Heat to 68 because it keeps a three degree difference and does not have different schedules for modes. So first here is a wiring picture - I don't have it  installed incorrectly. I've had a Nest for years.

So lets be in Heat Mode and look at the schedule. I have it set to begin heating at 6:30 AM and warm the house to 68 degrees.

This is my Heat schedule. During the night it goes down to 62. I have the same schedule every day of the week. See here

So I'm in Heat mode and it's heating to 68

So I live in the Southern US. It is not uncommon that the temp will rise into the 70's on a particular day, even in the winter. When that happens I want to be able to switch over to Cool Mode and have the air conditioner run and cool the house to 68. I won't even get into the need to run the AC at colder temps than would be comfortable to make sure the AC runs continuously in the summer. 

But let's say tomorrow the temp is going to get up to 74 degrees and I want to turn on the AC. So with the 3rd Gen Nest the cool mode and heat modes had separate schedules. So all I had to do was switch to cool mode and the AC would come on and begin cooling to 68, because that is what it was set at. 

But with the 4th Gen when I switch to cool mode it's set at 71. So when I installed the 4th Gen I assumed - OK I will switch over to cool mode, change the the temp down to 68 and save. The heat mode would have heat to 68 and the cool mode would have cool to 68 right? Wrong.

So I go to cool mode, go to the schedule and set my temp to cool to 68 and save. Notice the Heat goes down to 65.

So now my schedule shows this - Cool set to 68, heat set to 65.

Seems fine right?

Except it's not. Now the temp goes back down to 48 on Saturday I want to switch back to Heat mode. But when I switch back to heat the schedule is still set to the temp set points I just did for cool mode. I.e. the Heat is now set to heat to 65 - not 68. So I have to go back into the Schedule and adjust the Heat back up to 68. Which changes the cool back to 71. Because it keeps a 3 degree difference between the set points. And the next time I want to turn on the AC I have to repeat the whole process over again.

So that is my complaint. Why is the schedule the same on Heat Mode and Cool mode because weather and temps don't work like that. Every other thermostat I've ever had to use had separate schedules for Cooling and Heating, including the Nest 2nd and 3rd Gen.  This is very frustrating that I will have to constantly change the schedule to use my thermostat. How can the Nest 4th Gen be less capable than the 3rd Gen?

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[DracoSolon]

Any update Manuel? I've shown you what happens and others have commented that they see this behavior as well. 

[DracoSolon]

OK, I'm going to try to explain this again as best I can. 

To Start: The 4th Gen Nest does not allow different temperature settings for Cool Mode and Heat Mode. If you change the set points on one mode it changes on the other. I.E. you cannot have it set to Cool to 68 and Heat to 68 because it keeps a three degree difference and does not have different schedules for modes. So first here is a wiring picture - I don't have it  installed incorrectly. I've had a Nest for years.

So lets be in Heat Mode and look at the schedule. I have it set to begin heating at 6:30 AM and warm the house to 68 degrees.

This is my Heat schedule. During the night it goes down to 62. I have the same schedule every day of the week. See here

So I'm in Heat mode and it's heating to 68

So I live in the Southern US. It is not uncommon that the temp will rise into the 70's on a particular day, even in the winter. When that happens I want to be able to switch over to Cool Mode and have the air conditioner run and cool the house to 68. I won't even get into the need to run the AC at colder temps than would be comfortable to make sure the AC runs continuously in the summer. 

But let's say tomorrow the temp is going to get up to 74 degrees and I want to turn on the AC. So with the 3rd Gen Nest the cool mode and heat modes had separate schedules. So all I had to do was switch to cool mode and the AC would come on and begin cooling to 68, because that is what it was set at. 

But with the 4th Gen when I switch to cool mode it's set at 71. So when I installed the 4th Gen I assumed - OK I will switch over to cool mode, change the the temp down to 68 and save. The heat mode would have heat to 68 and the cool mode would have cool to 68 right? Wrong.

So I go to cool mode, go to the schedule and set my temp to cool to 68 and save. Notice the Heat goes down to 65.

So now my schedule shows this - Cool set to 68, heat set to 65.

Seems fine right?

Except it's not. Now the temp goes back down to 48 on Saturday I want to switch back to Heat mode. But when I switch back to heat the schedule is still set to the temp set points I just did for cool mode. I.e. the Heat is now set to heat to 65 - not 68. So I have to go back into the Schedule and adjust the Heat back up to 68. Which changes the cool back to 71. Because it keeps a 3 degree difference between the set points. And the next time I want to turn on the AC I have to repeat the whole process over again.

So that is my complaint. Why is the schedule the same on Heat Mode and Cool mode because weather and temps don't work like that. Every other thermostat I've ever had to use had separate schedules for Cooling and Heating, including the Nest 2nd and 3rd Gen.  This is very frustrating that I will have to constantly change the schedule to use my thermostat. How can the Nest 4th Gen be less capable than the 3rd Gen?

[HeyHoser78 · Accepted solution]

Draco brother,

I feel your pain!  An AI capable, 4th gen, $300, learning, smart thermostat should come with the capability you describe. 

Now I have to explain to my wife why her Christmas gift is less discerning than the builder grade device I ripped off the wall. At least it allowed 2 degrees F between settings.  

Google needs to push out a SW fix by midnight tonight as far as I'm concerned.  

[Marc_NJ]

I'm experiencing the same issue - and yet in my initial searches online this is the only post I've found so far that details end-users (such as myself) suffering from this issue.  Could it possibly be that this is some sort of software bug that is only happening to a few of us?  Did you ever get a resolution?

[DracoSolon]

No I have not received any answers. This might be a glitch because the do seem to say that I am incorrect and that there are separate schedules for heat and cool mode. But then when I show them with screenshots what my nest does and how there is only one schedule then they just don't respond.

[HeyHoser78]

I'm hoping it's a simple SW push that can fix it, to Draco's point, it mostly impacts people in the south, like me, in Florida where we get cold snaps for a few days and we need our heater to work overnight usually, then the day can get to over 80F, where we would need the AC to cool us down.

Currently, the best the Gen4 Nest can do for us is heat the home to 73F and cool it to 76F. Our preferred temp is 73F, so 76F feels way to warm during the day, for us. I know, first world problems, but we all bought a first world thermostat, so there should be a first world solution. 

Truth is, I read articles and watched videos about the nest Gen4 and none mentioned this 3F range discrepancy. I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it was worse than the builder grade one i had or even the previous Gen3 Nest. You should only gain functionality as the tech progresses. They were right about one thing; it does look cool.

At this point, I'm just waiting for Larry, Sergey, or Sundar to respond to us...

[Marc_NJ]

I wasted quite a bit of time last night communicating with Google Chat Support and getting nowhere with them.  They just kept transferring me and repeating the same unhelpful steps over and over.  This morning I reached out to a Google contact I have at a higher level to see if she can assist in putting me in touch with the right team/department at Google that can actually assist.  If I get any further updates, I'll post them here.

[DracoSolon]

I does seem insane that they built it this way. The only thing I can think of is that HVAC pros have complained that NEST's make systems work harder because the 3rd gen didn't have a 2 or 3 degree delay between temp and cooling. Supposedly in most thermostats when you set it to say 68 it cools to 68, But then it won't start cooling again until the temp reaches 70 or 71. In the 3rd Gen they say that as soon as the temp hits 69 it would fire up the system and start cooling again and that this increases wear and tear. So I can see where this complaint might have been noted but was implemented in the completely wrong way. I can just see some coder at Nest not understanding this and saying well let's put a three degree difference between the set point to "solve this" and not realizing that this would effect how you set the schedule up for heat and cool modes.

[TeddW · Accepted solution]

Hi folks, I see this problem also. It is a huge inconvenience and forcing both heat and cool set points 3 degrees apart in every schedule event seems like an intentional part of the app/software, not an error. Google nest really needs to fix this, as it defeats the utility of the scheduling function of the thermostat.