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Daisy chain?

Fouclo
Community Member

I'm a little confused, I just read that I should not exceed 5 google wifi in total, I've got 8 🤔. They are all unwired. They all have a great or good connection except one.  My main Google wifi router in the living room in an opened cabinet (on shelf, not behind doors). I then have a google wifi point in the bedroom on the floor right next to the patio-door leading outdoor. The unwired connection between the two is 'great'. Then I have another wifi point outdoor (inside a wooden birdhouse-size box, to protect it from rain), it's about 30 feet farther than the one in the bedroom (around 50-60 feet from the main one in the living room) yet the outdoor wifi-point tells me I have a weak connection... Is the outdoor one connected to the main living room, or to the closer bedroom point? How can I tell?

Main - - -> Bedroom - - -> Outdoor 

8 REPLIES 8

MichaelP
Diamond Product Expert
Diamond Product Expert

Hello @Fouclo 

The Google WiFi units run an implementation of the IEEE 802.11s mesh protocol over a (hidden) WiFi network that shares the same 5GHz radio that is used to serve 5GHz WiFi clients. In any mesh network, the key question is how a node decides which node to send a packet to next. They need some "metric" to make that decision, and in this case, they use "fewest hops" as the metric. So, for your outdoor unit, if it can get a connection directly to the primary, it will use that rather than going through the intermediate unit in the bedroom – even if that means shifting the transmission down to a slower speed. If it were farther away – far enough it couldn't get a direct connection to the primary at all, it would go through another unit that it could get to. However, this would likely be pretty slow, since the data would have to be transmitted over that same 5GHz channel twice, and given the hypothetical scenario, neither of those transmissions would be happening at a high speed. So, will it "daisy chain"? Yes, under some circumstances. But, you really don't want it to.

This is why the optimal placement advice for a mesh-only system is to put the primary in the center of the coverage area (and, if possible, up high and away from obstructions) with secondary units no more than one or two rooms away from the primary. They should all be close enough to get a strong 5GHz connection to the primary. From there, they will provide 2.4GHz and 5GHz coverage to more distant clients.

Having too many secondaries can cause performance issues (since they have to share the 5GHz radio between client and mesh traffic, they all have to be on the same 5GHz channel – not that there are actually all that many to choose from anyway).

Connecting secondaries back to the primary through a wired network can let you put a secondary just about anywhere, but that is a different discussion (and building mixed wired / mesh networks is even more complex, since wired secondaries don't extend the mesh). But, for getting coverage in outbuildings (like the one in your wooden box outside), wiring a secondary is by far the most reliable method. If you can't run a physical wire, there are wireless bridges that have directional antennas that can be used to create a virtual Ethernet connection. I know people have used these successfully in the past, but they are significantly more complex to set up.

I hope some of this "under the covers" detail helps you understand what you're seeing in your mesh test results and may help you experiment with some alternative placement options.

 

Fouclo
Community Member

Thank you Michael,

When you say <wiring a secondary is by far the most reliable method> do you mean; to wire from my 'main' to the 'outdoor' one? or do you mean to wire from the 'bedroom' one to the 'outdoor' one?

Thx

Claude

MichaelP
Diamond Product Expert
Diamond Product Expert

Hello @Fouclo 

Sorry for being unclear – wiring a secondary (e.g., your 'outdoor') to the primary (your 'main') works well. Wiring two secondaries (your 'outdoor' and 'bedroom') to each other does not. The primary has a LAN Ethernet port that you can connect an Ethernet switch to (something inexpensive and unmanaged – not a smart/managed switch). From there, you can build out a wired network that computers, printers, gaming consoles, smart TVs or other streaming video devices (for example) can be connected to. Secondary Google WiFi units can then also be connected to this network so they don't use the wireless mesh to carry their client traffic. This allows those secondaries to be placed much further away (including in outbuildings) and helps preserve wireless capacity for client traffic. Here's a page with more detailed documentation: https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/7215624?hl=en 

Fouclo
Community Member

Don't worry, it's not you who lacks clarity, it's me who's new to this… I didn’t mention but I already have a switch connected to the primary LAN Ethernet port (a TP-LINK model TL-SG1008D;, not sure if it is a 'smart/managed' or 'unmanaged' but my computer wired to it works fine)... But before I run a ethernet wire from the primary to the outdoor one, I have another point to try to explain... in fact, since you mentioned about <putting the primary google-wi-fi up high>, there's another variable in my scenario that I didn’t mention... the 'outside' one is halfway down a cliff (so the signal can reach my outdoor wifi camera at the bottom of the cliff). So could that be part of the problem? (the "outdoor" one not being at the same level as the "main" one?) and if so, would it change anything if I tilted the one in the cliff a little? (instead of laying it flat in the wooden box)
                      _____
                    /          \
                /                  \
            / ____________\
House |          (m)|          |
             |_________|_ (b)|___
                                                  \ Cliff
                                                      \
                                                         \(o)
                                                            \                              (c) Wi-fi Camera
                                                               \____________________


(m) = main wifi router up high in an open cabinet in the living-room
(b) = bedroom secondary point (on the floor next to a patio-door)
(o) = outdoor secondary point in the middle of a cliff
(c) wifi camera at the bottom of the cliff

MichaelP
Diamond Product Expert
Diamond Product Expert

The TL-SG1008D is a fine unmanaged switch that shouldn't cause any problems.

As for height and elevation changes, the reason for getting the primary up higher is just to get it above the typical clutter and obstructions of furniture, appliances, etc. The antennas (there are two for each band) are close to omnidirectional (spherical pattern) when combined, so the elevation difference between main and outdoor points isn't the issue. For example, if they were on two different floors of a house built with wooden floor structure. But, they really like line-of-sight that isn't obstructed by solid materials, so if a straight line between the main and outdoor secondary goes through the earth/rock at the top of the hill, that's going to be a significant problem in terms of signal strength. Wiring the outdoor secondary will avoid this issue entirely.

LovelyM
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hi Fouclo, 

I know it has been a while, but I wanted to ensure that everything is covered on your end. Please inform me if you still need a helping hand.

Cheers,
Lovely

Dan_A
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hey there,

 

We haven't heard from you in a while so we'll be locking this thread if there is no update within 24 hours. If you need assistance or want to discuss topics, feel free to start a new thread.
 

Thanks,

Dan

LovelyM
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hello everyone, 

I'm grateful for your help, @MichaelP

@Fouclo, I wanted to follow up and see if you are still in need of any help. Please let me know if you are still having any trouble from here, as I would be happy to take a closer look and assist you further.

Best,
Lovely