Google WiFi speaker group dropouts

[captainhoward]

Hello everyone.

I've asked this question a few times but I never seem to resolve the problems..

I'm having issues with the devices in my house - I'm calling them drop outs. I'm pretty sure that's what's happening anyway, and I'm hoping there might be some experts here or at least something I can do in the WiFi settings to remedy it?

Google speaker groups have for a while now gradually got more and more troublesome. I get stuttery music when playing on speaker groups, and after a load of stuttering they just go off altogether. Occasionally get some beeps on and off (if I'm manually casting), then it just goes down to playing to one speaker in the group and it just becomes impossible to start again on said group. 

For a while - picking a different speaker group with less devices deemed to rectify it, but now it does it on smaller speaker groups. Not only that, but even the non-smart devices are struggling like smart TVs getting the circle of doom when trying to stream etc.. 

I am finding it hard to believe that this is the amount of devices, or my WiFi connection itself, as the mesh says "great connection" and the speed is fine, and actually some devices don't seem to have a problem, but others do (I never seem to have problems with my firestick or nest thermostat)

I have virgin fibre, 200mb, Google mesh with a router and 2 extra points - all of which can pretty much see each other from where they're sitting. I've not even got any internal walls downstairs. I'm running about 30 devices in total. A combination of smart speakers, Chromecasts, Chromecast audios, a nest thermostat, couple of smart TVs etc.. 

In the mesh settings it looks like there's all sorts of mad stuff that can be adjusted and I'm wondering if there's maybe a way of "locking" certain devices to certain points maybe? Or at least something I can try to get it working as it used to!

I've tried doing all the factory resetting, restarting virgin modem and mesh network several times, all the turning off and on again etc.. 

(I have since downloaded a WiFi analyser app and noticed that not only are the WiFi points assigned to the busiest channels, since doing a reboot, they have assigned themselves to a different set of channels - and the speaker groups are slightly more stable now. Is this the source of the problem? And how can I stop it just changing the channels at random?)

Any help appreciated

[Jeff]

Hi, captainhoward.

Sorry for the continued frustration and confusion you've had with this. I know it's been a while since you posted this and I expected the community to have some thoughts on the issue. I wanted to check in to see if you got any help on this or found anything that worked for you. If everything is still the same, let me know and we can look at taking this to a higher tier of support.

Thanks.

[captainhoward]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for looking at this. I am still experiencing the same problems and nothing I do seems to change things. I'd learned that speaker group volume control is no longer possible unless you manually adjust each speaker individually.. but I can't see it that it's related. Shouldn't explain the dropouts should it. 

Amy help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks 

[Jeff]

No problem, captainhoward.

And yes, the volume functionality change is due to a legal decision affecting how controls work. The dropouts, however, are definitely indicative of an issue in your devices or network setup. I'll let you know when I can get some more info to share.

Thanks.

[Jeff]

Hey, captainhoward.
As an update for you, I wanted to let you know that we have a firmware update coming out now. Some people may have already received the update, but most will see it coming still. Everyone will have it before the end of April. If you receive that update and don't see an improvement in your issues here, please let me know and we can keep looking into things.
Thanks.

[Jeff]

Hey, captainhoward.
Just to give a bit more info, the update version for both Google WiFi and Nest WiFi will be 14150.43.80. If you are seeing a different version number when you check in Google Home, you have yet to receive the updated firmware. Let me know if you have any questions about that.
Thanks.

[Jeff]

Hey, captainhoward.

I just wanted to check in to see if you were still waiting on that update or if you have received it by now. If so, have you seen any changes in your device performance?

Thanks.

[captainhoward]

Hi Jeff

I've been meaning to reply but have been waiting for this update and it only landed a couple days ago. 

So.. there was an update for the home app, and I noticed an improvement, slightly anyway... It still wouldn't play on all speakers at once without any stuttering, but it seemed smaller groups were a bit better. However, this only last a few days and we were back to where we were before pretty much.

Then the update came for the WiFi, and there's been no change. 

I've got to say it's totally unlistenable when playing on any more than about 5 speakers. And when it gets to the stage where speakers start to drop off completely, we've even had on several occasions a situation where the speakers all drop off one by one and casting "chime" just goes crazy all around the house. The only way to stop it is restart the network. 

There is something I thought I'd best add that I've noticed recently. So up until this point I've been going on the theory that it must be something with the network that's causing all this, but I've noticed that when the music is playing on speaker groups and we start to have issues, it seems that that's actually the cause of the network issues! For example - network can be stable perfectly fine, then when I start to play music on speaker groups , it actually starts disconnecting everything from the network (not just the speakers but smart TVs, phones, everything). If I wasn't playing music they would stay connected just fine. What's that all about?

Again, It all starts with the songs stuttering for the first 20-30 seconds then it might play nice for the rest of the song, but as soon as the next song starts, the stutters start again? And then eventually the stuttering just gets worse and everything starts disconnecting.

Any further help would be appreciated as it's just impossible to use speaker groups in this state!

[Jeff]

Thanks for the update, captainhoward.

I'm sorry, that's definitely frustrating. I had hoped the updates would clear things up. I use multiple speakers in my groups too, so I can only imagine how rough it is to have them struggling like that. It's an odd thing to try, but have you tried setting up a second group with the same speakers minus one? If that group performs well, add the last one back in and see if issues start. If so, remove a different speaker to see if it causes things to level out again. Then repeat the process until each one has been swapped out and back in. I would just like to know if it's a case of the total number of speakers or possibly a single device that's introducing an issue into the mix.

[Jeff]

Hey again, captainhoward.

I was just curious if you were able to run through those tests. I know it's a bit of a process, but finding out if it's the network or a device is probably the best next step.

Thanks.

[Jeff]

Hi, captainhoward.

I'm just checking in once more to see if you still need help on this. If so, just let me know.

Thanks.

[captainhoward]

Hi Jeff. Thanks for checking in this, will be giving these tests a go over the weekend. 

I've tried removing certain devices from groups and trying that, but I think I need to start from scratch and work upwards one speaker at a time. Over the last few years it has gradually got worse the more speakers I've added so it's always lead me to believe that it's too many speakers, but then I see on the forum here people seem to have no problem with twice the amount. I think I have about 16 in total. Anyway, I'm going to try creating a new group and start adding them one by one. Let's hope I find something. I find I'm listening to music less and less and we can't have that.

Let you know how I get on.

Cheers

[captainhoward]

Hi Jeff

Just been doing some runs with a test speaker group and removing speakers one by one in-between streaming. Saving the new group every time and recasting. No change unfortunately. 

I've revisited the Google search and although I've seen people talk about this stuttering on groups before.. I saw that someone has somehow changed the devices from 2.4 to 5ghz, and discovered it fixed the problem instantly, but I don't see how as you can't do such a thing? It's not something you can change anywhere in any of the settings. 

Any other solutions to try would be greatly appreciated. 

[captainhoward]

Update this morning...

Songs wouldn't even play on a 3 speaker group this morning. That casting chime just going off all over the place. 

I did a test of the mesh within the home app.. and we're back to "weak connection". Haven't seen that in a while. I really struggle to understand how the mesh connection quality changes when the points never move? Anyway, I unplugged one of the three points in the house and low and behold things seem to be working better. Did another test of the mesh and we're now back to "good connection". Without any movement of any of the points. 

It is still stuttery but better. I can't imagine the improvement lasting forever though. I can't run the house on just 2 points either as the garden is now pretty unreachable. I'm going to try and move them about but it all just seems a bit ridiculous. 

The guidance and troubleshooting for the google mesh system says that the points need to be within 2 rooms of each other, but when I do that the devices can't decide which one they want to connect to. And I think that is really the root of this stuttering problem. You can't force them either can you? To specific points? Like I have a speaker that is right next to one of the points but it chooses to connect to one that's 4 rooms away, and stutters because of it. How can a mesh system be so unusable?

[Jeff]

Thanks for the updated info on your testing, captainhoward.

To answer your question about forcing devices onto a specific point, no, it's not possible to manually assign that. I had the same issue as you where the Chromecast in my master bedroom was connecting to the point downstairs rather than to the point right in the same room. I experimented moving that basement point, and eventually removed it. It turned out I was running more points than I actually needed in the end. I don't know that it's the same for you here, but maybe try moving around your points a bit, focusing primarily on the point it's connecting to that's placed afar.

The mesh network will do its best to route traffic for the best possible connections, but there can be a lot of unseen factors, such as interference. I know this has been a long process to get this sorted, but it sounds like you're starting to narrow in on an explanation for things.

[captainhoward]

Hi Jeff

I had a long live chat with someone from Google the other day. I sent him some feedback code that he managed to run a diagnostic on and told me that the main point (connected to the modem) - it's "mesh link was broken". I asked him if that was a hardware or software thing.. but he couldn't say. Anyway, he said that because the main point is where all the magic happens we should swap it with one of the other points, so I did... 

Then did a mesh test, and I got "good connection" & "great connection". Couldn't believe my eyes, and the speaker groups started behaving again. 

However, and pretty much at the exact same time he closed the chat... I did another mesh test, and sure as eggs is eggs we were back to weak connection on both points again. I've been getting into the habit of doing a mesh test before I try and play music, and sure enough ... When the connection is weak, the music doesn't work. At no time between getting good or weak connection on a mesh test have I tried moving the points. They switch from weak to good and back to weak without them moving. I actually found another thread on here that I saw you assisting with about this.. weak connection with the mesh regardless of where the points are. And all that stuff with the Google guy on the live chat seems to me to be just rubbish. Not only did it not fix the issue, but it's now worse than before and I can only seem to get music playing on 1 or 2 speakers at a time.

This is the bit that makes me shake my head in disbelief really. I've tried all sorts of locations for my points, and no matter where I put them, yes I may get a good connection for a few hours , but they will always revert to having a weak connection not long after. I've tried removing a point (maybe 3 is too much like you say) but same results. I've tried moving them closer, same results, further away..same problems. I find it extremely hard to believe that Google wants people to find a spot SO precise that they'll all work in harmony together. Sounds like it's either that or the mesh system - which is marketed to people as an alternative solution to WiFi extenders (tell me I'm wrong) - is only designed for houses that are 2 rooms wide and 2 rooms high?! And if it's the latter, then a regular router from your ISP should suffice. 

The only thing I can see doing now is swapping the Google mesh system for something else. It just doesn't seem to me like it works how it should work.

Hoping there might be something else we can try. 

[KyleSanDiego]

I have almost identical problems with unreliability and have similarly doubled down on google home tech time and again.  My current theory is that the Google Wifi systems are simply incapable of handling all the google home devices' network traffic when casting as groups.  Wifi congestion MAY be the culprit, but I have gone to great lengths recently to hardwire many bandwidth-intensive devices to reduce congestion.  However, casting audio to groups is still incredibly unreliable.  I upgraded google wifi to google nest wifi, and have even hardwired the various google nest wifi routers together to try to get a stable wifi network.  I think the newer google nest wifi is actually less reliable than the older google wifi.  The new Google Nest Wifi Pro is slated to launch in a month, but I can't see how adding Wifi 6 will help when none of the google home devices use the new wifi 6e band.  I somehow believed there was a benefit to running the google home ecosystem with Google Wifi, but that hasn't worked at my home.  I'm resisting the urge to upgrade to the new Google Wifi Pro since it got worse going from google wifi to nest wifi.....so I'm currently shopping for a new Wifi system hoping a more robust Wifi network will solve the instability of the google home (especially casting to audio groups) devices.  If there is some advantage to sticking with Google Wifi (pro) to run the google home ecosystem, will someone please share?  Having controls in a single app certainly isn't a selling point (especially since the old Google Wifi app had better controls than the google wifi controls in the new consolidated google home app).

Thanks!

[KyleSanDiego]

Solved…but not what you all will want to hear…I ripped out all my google stuff and bought Amazon Echos.  After a few months I can say it just works!  I only wish I would have done it sooner and saved the aggravation going down rabbit holes by assuming google software wasn’t the issue.  I spent thousands running network cables, upgrading google Wi-Fi, tinkering with network congestion issues.  I can’t believe Amazon is better at designing software than Google, but it has become clear the Echo ecosystem is the way to go for whole house audio.

Save yourself countless hours and switch. I only wish I did it sooner. 

[BZ1]

Thank you for the solution. I think it’s really bad of Google to deny this well known issue and keep repeating the same solutions over and over again knowing **bleep** well they don’t work. Even though Google don’t have a support customer service phone number like for example Apple, it’s good that they have this online support system, but what good is it if they keep taking their customers for fools? I’m gonna sell all of my speakers. 2 Hubs, 3 Audios and 7 Minis. 

[Pags4272]

I honestly can't believe that nest wifi gets such rave reviews. I've had the same issues as you guys. I have 80 connected devices in my home all tied to the Google ecosystem and the Nest wifi can't handle it. I first tried 1 router and 2 points, then bought two more routers to use as points because of the better coverage. After so many attempts, different spettings, different placements (closer, farther right next to each other) it still shows a weak mesh connection. Now I believe the software is flawed honestly as the speeds are still great, however a mentioned above, I have 15 Nest speakers and they will not work with Neat WiFi as a group. They keep connecting and reconnecting, dropping in and out trying to swap between points. Also the channels aren't the same on all the points which causes a large issue with no way to set them. I went back to my Verizon FiOS router and extenders and the speakers work great, but the speeds are not constant across all my devices. I think it's time to scrap everything and go with Orbi. I would say unreal that a Google product doesn't work with an entire Google ecosystem but this is what I've come to expect these days unfortunately. 

[BZ1]

This is a well known problem in Google Speaker Groups. I think its really odd that Google doesnt just come forward and admit that this problem exists. I mean, they are speakers, but cant even play music unless I use maximum three at a time (but I have 13). I think and hope I can smell a group lawsuit coming up in the future... 

[Hacknpoke]

I have the exact same issue. Stuttering music when casting to groups.  The only thing that seems to fix it is a reboot of the google mesh wifi system (router and satellites).  However, it is a temporary fix and recurs within 24 hours.  It is clearly a wifi issue and I have had this issue for well over a year. I guess it is time to move to a different wifi mesh solution. 

[captainhoward]

Yes. And the problem has been the same here for years now. Changing WiFi solution didn't fix it for me... It did..but again just temporarily. I went from a nova mesh mw6 to a Google WiFi mesh. And I've now gone back to the nova mesh with the Google ones sitting in a box. The nova seems to cope better, but I can only get up to about 4-7 speakers before the stutters start. I have a "whole house" speaker group set up but I can only use it really on half of them at a time. "Downstairs" or "Upstairs". Just be mindful that investing in another mesh might not solve the problem. 

[captainhoward]

Yes. And the problem still persists years on, for me anyway. 

I changed mesh, from a nova 3 point nova mw6. To the Google 2nd gen msh 3 points. It was worse. Changed back to the nova and I can at least now do about 6-8 speakers with minimal fuss. I have a "whole house" speaker group split into upstairs and downstairs. And the nova mw6 can handle either the upstairs or the downstairs. Not both. So be mindful that paying for a different mesh system might not fix the problem. I do also see that reboots help. But nothing seems like a real fix!

[Hacknpoke]

Thanks for the info and saving me some money. You are correct that there appears to be some maximum threshold.   I guess I will make a few more smaller groups and not have whole house music until Google recognized this as a problem and addresses it.

[Pags4272]

Something recently happened that made this unusable now. I finally had everything working and out of nowhere it went haywire.  Nothing to do with with my wifi as mine of my settings have changed. All of a sudden I can't get all speakers working at all. Each speaker at different times just tries connecting. I hear the casting sound 100 times from different speakers and can't even get it to stop. I am beyond frustrated at this point with Google. I wish I invested my thousands on a better ecosystem. 

[captainhoward]

I would keep an eye on this as it happened to me not long ago and then just rectified myself. It was a few months back and yes just as you described... The whole house was just chiming all over the place (the sound played when manually casting). All over the house, and just would not stop either! Only way to turn it off was to reset the router. Ride it out and another annoying issue should slip away and sort itself out. I hear you, it is frustrating. Thousands of pounds spent and nothing works as it is supposed to. They sold us Google speaker sold to group together, and thousands of pounds later they don't work together. 

[BZ1]

Yeah, me too. When I had about 7 speakers I had the lagging issue. Suddenly it started working on its own. So I went and bought a couple more. But as soon as I connected the last one it started acting like crap again and haven’t been able to fix it ever since no matter what I do. Even removing the new couple of speakers I bought. But I even had this same problem when I only had 3 nest mini speakers too, then too it just started working one day. But right now I have 13, a combo of Nest Mini, Audio and Hub and they’re just standing around. I can use them separately but not as a speaker group. Which is why I bought them in the first place…… 

[BadRock]

I have the same problems. I updated my wifi to the latest Google Nest Wifi Pro 6E, but the problems persist. Very disappointing that this hasn't been addressed or that a workaround hasn't been identified.

[BZ1]

that’s very disappointing. I thought Google was a serious tech company giving they are Google, YouTube, Gmail and so on. But it seems they don’t give two craps about their customers, only their money. I’m not satisfied with my Google Wi-Fi mesh system either. The router looses internet every two-three weeks, so I have to restart it. It’s very **bleep** when I’m on vacation or something and loose surveillance cameras and “imitating someone’s home” from

my Hue lights. Never had that issue with my ASUS router. Google should take this serious and fix these issues. Because this is a complete disrespect to their customers safety and hard earned money. 

[KyleSanDiego]

I can’t say enough about how happy I have been after ditching the google Wi-Fi and home devices. I put in a super reliable and powerful ASUS aimesh Wi-Fi system and Amazon echos. It all just works!!  Stop stressing over the google junk and switch.   I will never get back the many hours I spent troubleshooting the buggy google home audio/Wi-Fi assuming google knew what they were doing. 

[BZ1]

I fele you 100%. If i could return all my Google crap i would. But after investing thousands of dollars in it im kind of stuck with it now. Can’t just put it back in my closet and invest in something new like Alexa, Apple, Sonos etc. Let this be a valuable lesson for everyone else. Google devices suck. They only have a strong name but weak products. 

[AlexMcB603]

I'm experiencing the same problem.

I have a speaker group that is 3 Chromecast Ultra's, 2 Chromecast/Google TV 4k's, and a Google Home display. I have excellent wifi coverage from my Linksys Velop MX5500 triple-node system. Every node is setup with wired 1Gbps backhaul rather than OTA backhaul, and all three Ultra's and 1 TV 4k are wired, leaving just 1 google TV 4k chromecast, and the Google Home display wireless. 

I really don't want all that much of a 'smart home,' I really just wanted to get the ability to play the same music, synced, everywhere in my house, and keep most of the traffic wired if possible, hence the Ultras... I should've gone with a bluetooth broadcast system like churches do...
I really was trusting that Spotify and Google would play nice together, and that the stability of Android would make this a pretty straightforward plan.

Live and Learn.

[kalebkl]

Hey @Jeff ,

Any chance for that higher tier of support? It seems like a lot of people are having the same issue, with no solution. Have to say I'm in the same boat. Most of the time I can't go a week without factory resetting my little homes and adding them back to the system, for them to only drop off again. I originally thought it was just my 1st gens, but 2nd gen was soon to follow. The only devices that are solid are the chromecast audio, nest hub, and a 1st gen chromecast.

[Higgo]

I just purchased more hubs hoping that would fix my issues, as you all described above. I figured my mesh signals going from strong to weak must be that I didn't have them quite close enough. Now I'm 1 room apart and still starts strong, then drops to weak. The music.... well across the house goes from good to bad all the time, but is never great. I was, like so many of you trying to stick with google across all devices but it is becoming impossible. The people who rate this tech rarely have more than one or two devices so they have no idea of capacity. The more committed you are as a customer of Google (I.e. the more devices and the more you spend) the worse it gets!

[Higgo]

One minute mesh is great 

 

[Higgo]

Next minute it's not 

 

[Hacknpoke]

After over a year with most of my speaker groups not working, they all started working flawlessly yesterday.  The large groups (11 devices) along with the smaller groups.  No changes on my end.  I am wondering if there was a fix pushed out or this is just a very odd coincidence.  Anyone else have this working now?

[AlexMcB603]

I believe Hacknpoke (great name btw) is correct!

I can second their success! Since they sent their message 2 weeks back, I've been streaming Spotify ONLY to my "all devices" group (6 devices- 3 wired Chromecast ultra's, 1 wired Chromecast with Google tv, 1 wireless Chromecast with Google tv, and 1 wireless Google Home display) and I have only had a couple instances where my app crashed, GONE are the pauses and stumbling starts for EVERY FREAKIN' SONG.

I'm very pleased