Ethernet Backhaul Setup

[FrankB4now]

Hello,

I have a Google Wifi Model GJ2CQ setup as a router, my Verizon Fios router is in bridge mode.  From the LAN port on the Google router an ethernet cable goes to a non-managed gigabit switch.  I have ethernet cables going from the switch to the three Google Home points Model # AC-1304. 

I started with the setup of the router, created our home and got it working fine, tested speed at 297 dn and 317 up.  Then I added one device at a time to our home from the app, once I go the app connected to the point, I then connected the ethernet cable.  All through the setup of each it went through setting up  and configuring, then once they were all in I clicked done and it setup the mesh network.  How can I tell if the devices are using the attached ethernet link instead of the mesh wifi connection?  I want to ensure that as the network data demand is increasing it will be using the ethernet connection and not mesh from the router through the other points to get to the last one.   Is there anything I need to do in settings or during setup to ensure proper routing.  I did reboot the entire system after complete.

Thank You for any feedback.

Frank

[MichaelP]

Hello @FrankB4now 

You can verify that a wired secondary is using Ethernet by going into that unit's details screen in the Google Home app and, under the "Wi-Fi Information" section, check to see that "Connection type" is "Wired". You shouldn't need to change any settings as long as it's connected correctly (and it sounds like it is) through an unmanaged Ethernet switch, it should just work.

[FrankB4now]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info, I checked and all 3 of them say Connection type: Wireless.  Also the client just texted me and then network has slowed to a halt, 4.9 Mbs.  And I ran a test on the network and got 293 download and 318 upload.   I tested the mesh and all came back Great connection.  How can I get these to use the Wired connection?  I can see activity, data being transferred on each port on the switch for each point.  Anything to try?  Do I have to go through setup again with the ethernet active?

Thanks,

Frank

[MichaelP]

Are you 100% sure the Ethernet switch isn't smart/managed? Maybe it's unmanaged, but still has loop detection enabled (I'm seeing a few like that coming onto the market now). What make/model of switch is it?

Keep in mind, the network test just checks the speed between the primary/router unit and a server on the internet. So, that doesn't check anything about the internal network. A mesh test showing "great" is a good sign, but they really should be showing "Wired" in the connection type if the Ethernet network is actually working properly.

You do not need to go through setup again.

If I was debugging this, I'd strip it down to one secondary connected directly to the primary/router unit's LAN port and verify the connection type shows "Wired". Then, I'd start adding pieces one at a time, beginning with the switch (and maybe even using short, known-good patch cables before moving to the longer runs). Mix and match pieces until you can zero in on the issue. The fact that both secondaries are failing to show "Wired" may indicate the issue is the switch (or the cable connecting it to the LAN port on the primary/router unit).

[FrankB4now]

Hey Michael,

The switch is a Luxul AGS-1024, it is unmanaged but I am not sure if has any loop detection on it.  I get what you are saying to start identifying where the fault is happening.  I just wasn't sure it will pick it up automatically, now I will do like you say and start with one at a time directly to the router so I can verify the Wired connection and then move them into the field piece by piece and locate the breakdown.  I have other switches also that I can put in place to see if that 1024 is the issue.  

Do you have any idea what is going on with this wifi on him.  I know the speed test is only to the router, but the mesh test comes back Great connection.  He has been sending me screen shots of the wifi going to 6.7 on a laptop and 1.02 on his mobile device, and he moved from 8ft from the kitchen point to 8ft from the family room point.  So it is not the distance issue I mentioned before, this is  the WiFi just coming to a standstill.  Should I go to online support through the app, or call for tech support?

I appreciate your knowledgeable feedback so far.

Thanks,

Frank

[MichaelP]

That switch sure doesn't look like it supports loop detection, so I expect it to work just fine. Hopefully you discover a bad cable or a bad port or something when you go through the process.

As for the performance issues, I would focus on getting the wired Ethernet interconnect working reliably first (or disconnect the secondaries and use the mesh interconnect). I have a suspicion the flaky Ethernet connectivity is causing performance issues as the system tries repeatedly to use that path. I can't prove that, though – it's also possible something like a sound bar that supports wireless speakers is causing interference.

When testing device performance, it's always a good idea to check that device's details in the Google Home app to make sure it's actually connected to the access point you think it is. This isn't like cellular – the WiFi clients decide when to hand off between access points (and between bands), and some do a better job than others. Even best case it may take 10 to 30 seconds to initiate a hand-off.

I would continue your debugging plan before reaching out to support. They certainly mean well, but they may not have much experience with Ethernet backhaul, and may not be able to help with that. But, at some point, it could be necessary.

[FrankB4now]

Michael,

Thanks again for your help.   I do appreciate the pointers on WiFi connectivity, it is ever evolving and tough to keep up with.  It seems that each system has it's own quirks.

We are on the same page, after thinking about it I thought, if the Ethernet is not being recognized by the Points then that data could be corrupting the system.  I did exactly what you said, I was on the phone with the client and told him to unplug the Ethernet cable from all 3 Points and then I rebooted the entire network.  I'll bet the corrupted data coming from whatever issue was going on.  I will be back there Monday and do my troubleshooting on the Wired issue.  As we all learn something new each day, I will log back in and let you know what I find out.

As I said I do appreciate you expert feedback.

Thanks,

Frank

[FrankB4now]

Hi Michael,

I did make it back there and I started with one point wired directly to the router and it came up wired, so I took a 5 port gigabit switch and connected it to the router and proceeded to connect one point at a time through the ethernet cable, they all came up wired.  I noticed that if I disconnect and then reconnect it would go from wireless to wired within 30 seconds or so.  I then started to put each one back on the original Luxul AGS-1024 switch and they all came up as wired.  I didn't change anything but now they all do show wired.  So I put things back together and they have remained wired since. 

I have still been receiving multiple times from the client that the wifi comes to a complete standstill, showing me speedtests of 1.2 Dwn and 36.4 Up.  Then connects  a laptop wired and gets 296 Dwn and 319 up.   He is 10ft form the point and gets this.  It happens on different points also.  I have him turn off Wifi and then back on so it connects to the closest point and stays the same.  Reboot phone or laptop and still the same.  I test the speed form the app and it is 292 and 316, but I know that is from the router out to a server, not the Wifi.       

If I am logged in during one of these episodes, what should I be looking for?  I logged into devices and I can see which ones are connected.  Some idle and some with speeds.  I am going back to try to troubleshoot tomorrow and Wednesday.  I have on my list to document as many of the Mac addresses I can and then I was going to go in the app, in devices and identify and name as many devices as I can.  this way when it happens I can at least know which devices I am looking at.  Should I look at using Prioritize device to see if that clears up the problem, or use as a tool?

Let me know your thoughts on how to proceed.  

I will also be doing a signal strength test and I do have all the Mac addresses of the points and router so I can tell which is which.  

Thanks in advance.

Frank

[MichaelP]

Frank,

Sounds like progress. As long as all of the secondary/point units are showing as "wired", the next thing I'd do is run a mesh test. That focuses on the interconnect between the points and the primary/router unit. For wired units, they should all show "great" as a mesh quality rating (but it can be more complex than that – it's a stress test, and when you have a _lot_ of secondary/point units, congestion alone can impact the result; still, it's useful).

After doing a mesh test, you can actually see the detailed speed between each secondary/point and the primary/router. But, it's a little hard to find. To get it, you have to look at the details for a client device that's currently connected to one of the secondary/point units in question. When you scroll to the bottom of a device's details screen, you should see a section labeled "Device speed". The first number under that section is the result of the most recent router-to-internet speed test. The second number is the result of the most recent mesh test, and applies to the specific secondary/point unit that client device is connected to. There's a space for another number below that one, but it will only be populated if you've done a device speed test for that client device. I usually like to focus on these numbers from top to bottom – make sure the internet speed test is what you expect, then make sure the mesh test is what you expect. Then run a device speed test from this screen to check how fast that device can talk to the access point it's currently connected to.

As I mentioned above, the mesh speed test is a stress test of all of the secondary/point units talking to the primary/router unit simultaneously. So, the 1Gbps Ethernet link to the primary/router unit should be the bottleneck there, and that will get shared by all of the secondary/point units during a mesh test. So, with three secondary/point units, you may see numbers in the 300Mbps range during a mesh test. That does not mean that is a speed limit! It's just what that one got during a simultaneous stress test where all of them are talking at the same time.

I hope some of the above helps – if you don't see expected mesh speeds from one secondary/point unit, you know to focus on that Ethernet link. If you don't see expected mesh speeds from all of the secondary/point units, you know to focus on the common Ethernet link or switch itself. If you do see expected mesh speeds from all secondary/point units, then focus on the last hop – the WiFi connection to the devices. If that's having trouble, I'd be looking at potential sources of interference, or issues with the client device's WiFi adapter.

[FrankB4now]

Thanks Michael,

That's a lot to grasp, but I get the idea.  I'll dive deeper into tomorrow and now I have a good direction.  I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks,

[FrankB4now]

Hi Michael,

I have been identifying some devices and testing them.  some speeds from the device test are a bit slow, 30.8 Mbps, one issue I keep seeing is there is a point in the kitchen and I moved it to the top of the cabinet to stay away form the cordless phone in it's base.  I get good signal strength in that area.  The main router is below in the basement, I unplugged the bedroom wifi point and tried to get the master bedroom to connect to the kitchen point which is right below the master, the Fire Cube connected to the basement wifi, instead of the kitchen.  Also his laptop, right in the kitchen connects to the basement wifi.  The kitchen one seems to either drop out or gets ignored and the basement gets connected even with a lesser signal.  Can I take two points and switch locations to see if it does the same thing in another location?  If so won't that mess up the mesh network, because the distances between them has changed and actually reversed.  If it will correct itself, how long will it take to make the correction.  Or am I better off just purchasing a new one and replace the kitchen one?  we did find that when it was getting slow speeds from the device tests, I would reboot the entire network and the speeds came back with 76 Mbps.  He said it will work fine and then suddenly come to a halt, Kbps only.  Any thoughts?  BTW he only has 300 Mbps service coming in, that shouldn't be an issue could it?  He had 4 Fire sticks that were on wifi and about 5 laptops.  I got one Fire cube on ethernet and have 2 adapters that I will get 2 more of them wired tomorrow.  

Thanks,

Frank

[MichaelP]

I'm not sure I followed all of that entirely, but in answer to the question about moving the points around / swapping positions, sure – you can absolutely do that. The mesh doesn't have a single topology, but each node keeps track of what other nodes it can reach and what devices it can reach through them. That will get rebuilt quickly after a restart.

It's possible there is interference in that area, or just physical barriers to getting good connectivity to an access point there. More access points isn't always better, and can, in some cases, be worse. So, you might just try removing the kitchen access point entirely and see if things work well enough without it.

One more thing to be aware of is client devices decide which access point to connect to. The network provides them with some extra information that can help them make better decisions, but client devices don't always support the specifications used to do that. In particular, fixed devices tend not to. But, even some mobile devices (phones, laptops) don't. This can result in them getting "stuck" to a distant access point that they can still get to even when they are closer to a different one. Sometimes a network restart appears to fix this, but the reality is, it may just be forcing the device to reevaluate which access point to connect to (which can more easily be done by briefly disabling and reenabling WiFi on that device).

If you have Ethernet in place, connecting as many fixed devices to it as possible is always recommended, especially anything that streams video. You want to preserve limited WiFi capacity for devices that are mobile or can't be wired. This may be even more important in a high density environment like an apartment building or condominium, since everyone is sharing the same limited spectrum.

I hope some of this helps!