nest thermostat 2nd Gen uk using nest stand wifi

[bixieupnorth]

my main question about this infernal decision remains unanswered.

my set up, from 2014, has the heat link in a cupboard in the hall beside the boiler. I'm based in the UK.

in the living room my nest thermostat sits in a powered cradle, (the nest stand i think it's called?) and everything connects via wifi.

my question is, is there a straight swap for the 3rd or 4th generation? can i get a similar set up on either of the newer ones and replace? or will the heat link need to be rewired to facilitate?

i can't find any information about this, except about wall mounted thermostats.

we don't particularly want this option, as we've found the wifi cradle to be perfect for our needs

i hope someone can answer this, or point me somewhere that can help?

thanks in advance

[bixieupnorth]

why no replies? they're really not interested in supporting us early uk adopters at all. BOOOOOGGLE

[Frustratedddd]

You have answered your own question, NO they are not interested in supporting us here in the UK. However, I can help you!

First of all with a little searching on this forum you will find the 4th generation thermostat is NOT available in the UK. This has been talked about many many times.

Regarding a 3rd gen themostat fitting onto a 2nd gen base plate, well that does not fit. Again this question has been talked about many times on the forum. This means if you update to a 3rd gen thermostat, you will have to purchase a new stand, base plate and display. One thing very few experts know, and that is your old Heat Link will work with a 3rd generation display. Having said that, it will only work with the heating, as your 2nd gen Heat Link does not have water connections.

Which means, if you buy a 3rd gen stand, 3rd gen display, 3rd gen base plate - they will work with your old 2nd gen Heat Link as it does at present.

Make sense now?

[bixieupnorth]

yes i think so, you're saying that i could buy a 3rd gen unit, stand and baseplate and it'll work straight away with my existing heat link over the wifi as currently? i wouldn't need to get anyone in to rewire the heat link?

i only want it for the central heating so the water doesn't worry me. can you confirm this for me ASAP please, as you seem to know more than the experts!

[Frustratedddd]

That is correct!

Where are you located, as I have many spares you could try if anywhere near me.

You will have to pair the 3rd gen display to the old 2nd Gen Heat Link.

The 2nd gen signal is exactly the same as the 3rd gen.

Pairing can sometimes be tricky, but with a temprary connection that can be achieved if needed. Search my posts and replys, I have covered this many times.

Obviously you will ONLY get the same functions as you get now, NO HOT WATER just heat control, as the 2nd gen does not have the H/W ralays.

[bixieupnorth]

that's great thanks!  i missed this reply so ignore my one a few minutes ago.

i live in sheffield. i'm watching a complete 3rd gen on ebay at the minute, ends this afternoon.

i have only ever used mine for the central heating, to be honest i didn't know it could do the hot water too!

thanks for your help

[bixieupnorth]

didn't win it, **bleep**!

[humbertogarcia]

Hi folks,

Thank you for posting in the community and for the research you've done.

Regarding upgrading your Nest Learning Thermostat (2nd Gen) in the UK to a 3rd or 4th generation model, please consider the following:

A direct swap is unlikely. This is because the Heat Link system, used for boiler control, is generation-specific. As outlined in the help article How to tell which Nest thermostat you have, the 2nd gen, 3rd gen, and Nest Thermostat E all use Heat Links, but these units are not interchangeable due to differing wiring. Rewiring the Heat Link will almost certainly be required for the upgrade.

Given the complexities of UK wiring, professional installation by a Nest Pro or a qualified technician is strongly recommended to ensure safe and correct installation and prevent potential damage.

This information should help with your decision. Let me know if you have further questions.

@Frustratedddd Thank you for your participation and for sharing your expertise, please consider that your information is useful regarding a migration to a Nest Learning Thermostat (3rd Gen) migration, however given the physical differences of the thermostats' bases, professional advice before purchase and the professional installation is a must to consider.

Regards,

Humberto

[Frustratedddd]

You need to look into what connects to what, then advise users how they can get a work around.

[bixieupnorth]

thanks to both of you for your replies. however they seem to contradict each other regarding the heat link compliance.

plus again google have given no thought to the outlay of several hundred £(per UK based early adopter) to replace a unit which works pretty well even after 11 years.

has anyone there thought of the environmental factors, or is it just purely the cost to google? i find it really annoying that they have forced me to spend a great amount of money when something works perfectly well.

[Frustratedddd]

Now if you read some of my early post, you will see I am NOT a Google fan. However after 11 years of usage you would expect a company to move on. For example, you would not expect Ford to keep selling Ford Escort wings after 10 years. For a thermostat to last for 11 years is pretty good, so an upgrade could be a better option as technology moves on faster than cars for example.

[bixieupnorth]

yes i get that, but their decision is very costly to all of us. i could maintain my ford escort myself, but google are in effect disabling it's engine permanently.

i'll never buy anything direct from them again. well i guess i didn't anyway, as it was nest when i got mine!

[bixieupnorth]

my system, was fitted by npower in 2014. so the stand has all the baseplate wiring, the thermostat just clips into the front of it. then it connects to the heat link via wifi. 

being a novice i always assumed it would be a simple replace of the whole thing and the wifi would pick up the new system.

every search i've ever done just leads to rewiring of the heat link. whereas my system isn't wired, it never was. it was installed as wifi.

so i hope frusttrraated is correct with his take on it, as a second hand unit, baseplate and stand would be doable on my budget

thanks

[Frustratedddd]

Sadly the 2nd and 3rd gen display are different design, the base plate and stand also changed. The 2nd gen stand can fit, but it's a bodge.

The pictures show the change in design of the base plate,

[Frustratedddd]

I have replied to the bottom of the thread to save the confusion, you message starts now below.

that's great thanks!  i missed this reply so ignore my one a few minutes ago.

i live in sheffield. i'm watching a complete 3rd gen on ebay at the minute, ends this afternoon.

i have only ever used mine for the central heating, to be honest i didn't know it could do the hot water too!

thanks for your help

Sadly to far away, as I'm on the East Coast!

Yes your 2nd Gen will ONLY work for heating, the water function only started on the 3rd gen thermostat.

You will see on the 2nd Gen Heat Link terminals marked up as 1 -2 - 3, these are you Heating connections, and I am guesing you will have cables in 2 & 3?

The newer 3rd Gen has terminals 1 -2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6

1 -2 - 3 as yours exactly the same for Heating

4 - 5 - 6 These are for the Hot Water connections.

This means IF you purchased a 3rd Gen thermostat complete, you would use EXACTLY the same connections as your one is connected now.

You could add Hot Water, BUT you would then need a pair of cables connected to the boiler from the Heat Link.

Like I said at the very start, IF you could find a 3rd Gen display this would work with your 2nd Gen Heat Link, BUT it will need pairing. Pretty simple, and search on here and I have talked about it many times.

I hope all this make sense??

The set you bid on, what was the final selling price?

[bixieupnorth]

£84 i think?

ideally i don't want to be messing about with wiring. electrical stuff scares me and i don't want to shell out extra for a spark to come in.

i'm aiming to buy the full 3rd gen kit (thermostat, cradle with backplate), then, as you said, just swap it over and hope it pairs with the heat link.

then sell the old one for whatever i can get for it.

cheers again

[Frustratedddd]

£84 is very cheap for a good used 3rd gen. My average price for a very good one use to be around £140

One VERY important thing if buying a used 3rd gen thermostat set complete, it MUST be a matched pair. ALWAYS ask the seller to confirm it’s a matched pair, if they don’t know walk away. A sealed boxed 3rd gen will be a matched pair, so no worries there. 

[bixieupnorth]

you mean that the therm and the backplate must be matched? i'm not sure what you mean by a pair?

[Frustratedddd]

No, the display and the Heat Link MUST be from the original set, NOT from a mixed set.

For example if someone had a faulty Heat Link and changed it for another one, the display and Heat Link are now NOT a matched pair. 

[bixieupnorth]

i'm even more confused now? you told me that my existing heat link would work if i bought a3rd gen therm, cradle and backplate? are you now saying that this isn't the case?

[bixieupnorth]

oh well, i've won one now anyway, £84 including delivery. fingers crossed that it works. hopefully will be here by weds this week?

cheers

[Frustratedddd]

Your Heat Link WILL work with a 3rd gen display, but you need to read the posts clearly!

I stated IF you buy a FULL set  3rd gen Display and 3rd geb Heat Link they need to be matched!

Have you searched the forum and read anything about pairing? I stated earlier I have covered this subject many times!

[bixieupnorth]

apologies, i thought you understood that i didn't want to change the heat link, or involve an electrican. the only option i can afford is to replace the therm and cradle.

i haven't searched anything yet, i will cross that bridge now that i have actually sourced a 3rd gen unit.

they have deliberately made things as difficult as possible by changing all components then? so a 3rd gen heat link will only pair with it's original therm, but the 2nd gen heat link should pair with a 3rd, albeit with some difficulty? you've probably already covered that, i'll do my searches thoroughly before contacting you again.

thanks once more

[bixieupnorth]

me again, sorry if i'm being really stupid but i can't find any posts from you about this subject apart from ones saying that you've dealt with this time and time again and to do a serach!

what am i doing wrong, i click into your profile and there are only a limited number of posts, none of which appear to deal with this subject?

the best i found elsewhere is this :-

I put in here some steps to help you connect back the thermostat with the Heat Link. The steps need to be fulfilled in this order only.

Before following these steps make sure of the following:

- The thermostat is connected to the base and to a power source and it's getting power (You can check in the "Technical info" option, and after that in "Power", the battery needs to be above 3.8 in order to maintain a constant connection with the Heat Link, however, if it's not, let it charge until it is).
- If you have the possibility (the thermostat is on a stand), bring the thermostat and the Heat Link as close as possible only for the pairing process, after that, you can move them anywhere in the 30 meters radius

1. Gather the 6-digit entry key located on the bottom side of Heat Link's case, near the screw that holds the case together.

2. Select the option "Replace Heat Link" on the thermostat (you will have a message saying that the thermostat failed to connect wirelessly to the heat link, you just need to continue and you will receive a screen with 4 options: check again, reset pairing, replace heat link and technical info, the correct option in the third)

3. Put the 6-digit entry key in there but don't confirm it. Just write it there and stop when you see the word "Connect" highlighted.

4. Press the "Nest" button on the Heat link and hold it for 45 seconds until you see a slowly pulsating blue light on the Heat Link. After that, wait about 5 seconds and press and hold it again for another 45 seconds until you see a slowly pulsating blue light on it.

5. Go ahead and press connect on the Thermostat's display and wait about a minute. You shall see the message "Heat link connected wirelessly" and the Heat Link's light shall be solid green. That means the devices are connected and working.

would that be what i'm aiming for? a six digit code somewhere on the inside of the heat link (2nd gen) i already own?

i've also found the official google how to guide.

apologies again for being stupid!

[Frustratedddd]

There may not be original started posts by me on the subject, but replies dozens.

i searched this way.      Pair heat link to display

I then looked through the posts, and searched the forum.

The process you state above is about right, but yours is a 2nd gen. The Heat Link led colours are different on yours, from memory yellow, green??

I cannot remember where the 6 digit code is on your heat link, but from memory it’s by the QR code. I think that’s on the Heat Link at the top, could be under the cover. Just look until you find it.

[bixieupnorth]

yes it's on the top, under the click off cover, beside the QR code.

i've recently burrowed through the stuff in the corridor leading to the boiler cupboard and now have a photo of it safe and sound ready for the delivery to arrive.

i was astounded at how small the heat link box is, i'd never even noticed it there tucked in beside the boiler before.

thanks for the search tips. i was only looking for ones started by your good self, that explains why i didn't find any.

i'm hoping it'll be here weds or thurs, altho the seller hasn't posted it yet, so who knows?

cheers again

[Frustratedddd]

This is where you are assuming things and not reading correctly.

ANY 3rd gen will pair with ANY 3rd heat link.
I stated, IF you buy a complete set, then make sure you get a matched pair, in other words a set that has NEVER had any components changed. A full set in my comment is Display, Base Plate and Heat Link. These are the 3 main components.

[Frustratedddd]

Well at least you are one step ahead by finding the number required for pairing.

I cannot from memory remember the factory reset of the 2nd gen Heat Link, but you need to do that when ready BEFORE you proceed with the pairing.

You also need to factory reset the display, but with luck the seller has sent factory reset.

These are very important factors when pairing, so don't just go ahead and think everything will work. Check back when the display arrives, and I will advise. i am struggling with sciatica at present, so getting about and to the PC is a challenge, but just check everything prior to pairing.

I never thought, but do you have a link to the item purchased? I will have a look to see if OK, should have asked earlier, but as mentioned struggling at present.

[bixieupnorth]

it's here and the fiasco begins!

firstly i removed the old thermostat from the nest app. then battled my way into the boiler cupboard armed with the six digits. miraculously it connected almost immediately!

removed old thermostat from it's perch and fed the new cable through the cupboard to the plug socket. the cable is way shorter than the old one annoyingly (i'll swap them over at a later date).

tried to connect the thermostat to my wifi, but it was having none of it. similarly with adding it to the nest app. so read this thread again to see your comment about factory reset of the thermostat. did that and it's connected to my wifi no problem. but now, of course, it won't connect to the heat link! **bleep** it!

i've got to go out in a bit, so having one last go before i refill to hall so i can get out the front door!

[bixieupnorth]

and breathe! all sorted!! being squeezed into the boiler cupboard trying to follow this thread on a phone screen, it was no wonder i missed the crucial step!

thanks for your advice and patience!

just waiting for google to announce the discontinuation of gen 3!

so i now have 2nd gen display and backboard, and a 3rd gen heat link to sell!

cheers

[bixieupnorth]

one thing that's just crossed my mind. will the 2nd gen heat link become obsolete in october, or have i bypassed that by adding this 3rd gen therm to my nest app?

[Frustratedddd]

Are we saying in simple English you are back up and running with the following?

3rd Gen Display running a 2nd gen Heat Link?

[bixieupnorth]

yes that's right. it was really easy in the end thanks.

do you think the 2nd gen heat link will affect things after october, or is that side of things irrelevant?

[Frustratedddd]

OK, that’s good to hear you are working again.

Funny how after 778 views of this thread NONE of the so called experts came to your rescue!

Could any of the experts perhaps explain exactly why they ignored this user, and the only one that did gave FALSE information?

The one expert @humbertogarcia  who gave incorrect information, I would love to hear your thoughts! You clearly stated that my solution would not work, but for some odd reason a novice user is back up and running? They saved on wiring installation cost, purchase of a new complete set. I’m sure the user would agree my solution was much more cost effective.

[bixieupnorth]

haha yes that was amazing! one piece of advice, and completely wrong!

so do you know about the heat link question i've posed please?

[Frustratedddd]

To be honest I’m a little confused on the information you refer to.

First of all the Heat Link is nothing to do with connection to the internet or Googles direct access. The Heat Link ONLY connects from the display, nothing else. The display is the only connection that Google will any control over for updates. 

For example, if you do not connect to Googles app, and just use as a manual connection from display to Heat Link, the system will work forever. Obviously if the unit goes faulty, then that’s a different issue.

Can you explain exactly what you mean by October? The only thing I can think you mean is support, and Google haven’t supported the 2nd gen for years just like the 3rd gen. I cannot remember when the 3rd gen had a software update last,  it I’m sure it’s over 3 years ago.

[bixieupnorth]

sorry, for the vagueness. october is when the 2nd gen is removed from the app. i was just concerned that the 2nd gen heat link might be affected by that too.

from what you're saying it's not though, so that's good.

thanks again for all your help, and hopefully i'll never need to pester you ever again!

good luck with your sciatica, it must be miserable.

cheers

[bixieupnorth]

yes thanks to you i spent a grand total of £84 (less what i'll hopefully get for selling the 2nd gen?) and managed to install it all myself without the need for any expensive professional input.

very disappointed that no one from google came to my aid except humberto who gave the WRONG advice!

that's double disappointment from google, after the initial abandonment from october,  very poor, boo hiss etc!

[Frustratedddd]

Oh I see what you are getting at now. Yes good old Google have announced they are stopping remote access to the 1st & 2nd gen stats. The stats will still be useable, but not via the app. 

I can sort of understand their decision for this, but due to Google having no intention of launching the 4th gen in the UK and not updating the 3rd gen for remote sensors etc., I feel they are as selfish as they always are! The worst thing ever happened was Nest selling out to Google, HUGE amount of issues since these clowns got involved.

Regarding selling your 2nd gen parts, I would be very upfront when listing them. Reason being, if listed on eBay for example and the buyer is unaware, they can claim back on you. PayPal allow claims up to 6 months, which is way after the eBay 30 days.  Therefore anyone purchasing from eBay via PayPal can claim a refund. Sadly I found that out to my cost, so just be aware.

Regarding the selling of the 3rd gen Heat Link. I would not sell that at all, as that’s hopefully a matched pair with your display. Heat Links are one of my biggest sellers!

[bixieupnorth]

ok i'll keep that safe thanks, just in case there are problems further down the line, humberto the doom monger still seems to think i'm in trouble come october! i await your reply to his comments with interest!

cheers