What does turning on wpa3 in google home app actually do?

[Nstarr]

So this is a wifi6e device and a setting in the app says "Use Wifi Protected Access 3" (WPA3) which is essentially what enables use of wifi6e and the 6ghz band as far as I understand, otherwise wpa2 is active with the 2.4 and 5ghz bands. Despite these assumptions, I can connect to the 6ghz band (using my s23 ultra primarily for testing but sometimes windows laptops) at basically the same consistency and distances from points whether this setting is turned on or off. I would've assumed the 6ghz could only be used between nest points or something while turned off, and you had to have the setting turned on for other devices to utilize the band, but it appears to be usable by any device whether or not the setting is turned on. This is potentially sub-optimal for certain rooms in my house where devices perform better on the 5ghz band, but are close enough to the router or a point and will try to use the 6ghz anyways despite slower speeds all while the setting is turned off. 

So my question is, what does turning on the setting actually do since the 6ghz band and wpa3 seems to be usable by most of my devices irrespective of the setting. Additionally is there any way to actually make the 6ghz band inaccessible from other devices through the router settings, or is it always on no matter what, which reiterates my initial question.

[MichaelP · Accepted solution]

Hello @Nstarr 

Some background: WiFi 6E is the WiFi 6 standards profile in the 6GHz band. As such, it always uses WPA3. Nest WiFi Pro always enables WiFi 6E (6GHz) clients to connect in that band. When they do, they will use WPA3.

Nest WiFi Pro also supports 2.4GHz and 5GHz clients. In those bands, they support multiple WiFi standards profiles, including WiFi 6, 5, etc. But, in those bands, a client connecting using WiFi 6 is not required to use the WPA3 security standard. The issue is, some older (non WiFi 6) clients have trouble connecting in those bands when WPA3 is offered as an option. So, it can be enabled or disabled in the Google Home app. This just turns it on or off for the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, though (again, it's required by the standards in the 6GHz band). If you have any of these troublesome older devices, you may want to disable WPA3.

But, there's another potential issue. Some WiFi 6E devices have trouble changing between the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands and the 6GHz band if that would require switching from WPA3 to WPA2 (or vice versa). If you have any of these troublesome devices, you may want to enable WPA3 so they can use it across all three bands.

So, it's complicated, but that's what the setting does – control WPA3 being available in the lower bands only. It does not enable or disable the 6GHz band, nor does it impact whether WPA3 is used in the 6GHz band.

I should also mention that WiFi client devices are responsible for selecting an access point and band to connect to. They are also responsible for deciding when to switch to another band or access point. Nest WiFi Pro does provide clients with some extra information they can use to make better decisions, though (in the form of 802.11k and 802.11v). However, not all devices support these standards. Apple devices do, for example, but only some Android devices and only some Windows laptops do. Fixed devices usually don't. Even for devices that do support these standards, some do a better job than others. There isn't much more the network can do.

Lastly, it's important to know that the 6GHz band is currently limited to lower transmit power. The FCC did release some new rules that could allow higher transmit power, Google has not yet completed the work necessary to enable this. Since Nest WiFi Pro also uses the 6GHz radios for the 802.11s mesh interconnect, this makes placement of access points even more important. The primary unit (the one connected to your internet service) should be centrally located with any wireless secondary/point units no more than one (maybe two, but I wouldn't push it yet) room(s) away from the primary. Close enough they get a "great" rating on a mesh test in the Google Home app. From there, they will provide coverage to more distant 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz clients.

I hope this helps.

[Nstarr]

Wow! Super helpful reply, that perfectly explained the gap in my understanding. I've got just a few more questions as I play lots of competitive video games and am very picky about ping consistency if you don't mind indulging me. First, is the lower transmit power you described something that can be expected to be fixed in a simple firmware update down the line, or will a new set of devices be required? Additionally, if the nest wifi pros only allow a room or two distance for best results, could it be worth investing in a stronger third-party tri-band Wifi6e mesh extender (I would most likely have an ethernet from my desktop into the extender), are there any compatibility issues I should look out for? 

I was also getting some weird test results I'd be interested to get your insight on. I run ping tests by pinging google.com in my cmd for a few minutes to see the consistency. I have two main setups with my desktop computer I test between involving either an ethernet connection or a wifi6e wifi card connection, both connecting to a nest wifi pro mesh extender being used as a point with a wireless connection to the main nest wifi pro router (for reference me and the point are upstairs while the main router is in a downstairs closet). At a distance basically on the outer edge of what nets me a "great connection", the ethernet setup will provide me with a lower average ping but seemingly more frequent and higher ping spikes compared to the wifi setup. I can confirm through the app that the wifi setup is done through the same point I'm connecting to with the ethernet. To be fair, if I move the point to a room closer to the main router between floors, the ping remains much more consistent with the wired setup, but just very confused how a wireless connection between the point and desktop computer can possibly have a more steady connection opposed to being wired to it.

[MichaelP]

I'll do my best to answer what I can.

1. Regarding transmit power updates – this is expected to be a firmware update and won't require a hardware replacement. In order to be compliant with higher transmit power rules, the device will need to collect its approximate location and submit it to a database that keeps track of which 6GHz channels are in use in that area to determine whether higher transmit power will be possible without causing interference to licensed users. That will require changes to firmware as well as back end services.

2. Regarding an extender, I would not recommend something like that. I don't know if it would work or not, but it wouldn't be my choice.

If you care about latency (not just low latency, but low latency variance), use Ethernet rather than WiFi. WiFi is a convenience technology, but it isn't going to provide the throughput, low latency, or low latency variance that wired Ethernet can provide. On top of that, wireless mesh solutions (and extenders) are all about increasing usable coverage area. They often trade performance to get that increased coverage. So, invest in running Ethernet to any gaming systems if at all possible. If you can't get Ethernet all the way to the gaming system, then you can also connect secondary/point Nest WiFi Pro units back to the primary via Ethernet, sidestepping the whole 6GHz WiFi mesh interconnect entirely, leaving all three bands available for client traffic.

As for your ping tests, it's really hard to predict what may be happening there. I would just say, the optimal placement rules are as I described earlier (primary/router centrally located, secondary/point one or two rooms away from there). But, as I said above, if you can use Ethernet to connect the secondary back to the primary, that will be best, and that will allow you to place that secondary further away (people have put them in outbuildings successfully). But, the absolute best is to wire the secondary and any important clients (e.g., gaming rigs) into the primary through one or more inexpensive, unmanaged Ethernet switches.

[Nstarr]

Thanks so much, that was mostly what I was expecting. My main paint point is the fact that over 4 years ago we got google fiber in my family home with the original mesh extenders and I had wireless backhaul to wired desktop connection with very minimal ping issues and over twice the distance compared to my current house's setup.

After trying several things I think I finally found a setup that works. The two critical factors was the mesh extender being about 1 room closer to the main router than it originally was, AND having to turn off ipv6. I ran tests with the extender basically directly above the main router between 1 floor and was still experiencing issues and having better wireless to wireless backhaul results compared to wired to wireless backhaul like I described in the last post. After turning off ipv6, this resolved all frequent ping issues in the wired to wireless connection for whatever reason and was able to move the extender somewhat closer to my setup, but had to keep it in the hallway because putting it within another room like I originally had still resulted in ping instability.

I suspect I'd be able to put the extender in my room with minimal issues if the backhaul was done through the 5ghz channel thus why I asked if I could turn the 6ghz off originally. There's no ethernet or coax outlet on my half of the second floor so don't know any seamless way to create a wired backhaul. Think I'm just gonna stick with the extender out in the hallway with an ethernet into my room for now and potentially be able to put it in the same room if that transmit power update ever happens.

Just frustrating I'm forced to use this standard with any 1gig or higher plan unless I get third party stuff and it performs worse in my primary use case compared to the 5 year old version.