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Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

RachelC
Googler
Googler

Hey everyone, 

I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and smoke alarms. Nest Protect cannot function as a heat alarm due to specific hardware and functional requirements of those devices. So, beginning February 2022,  Nest Protects will not meet these new requirements due lack of interconnection with a compatible heat alarm. 

At this time, there are no current plans to produce a heat alarm and we do understand this is not ideal for many of our Scottish customers, but you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm as an addition to your interconnected system. We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

We ask that you continue to refer to the guidance of your fire and local authorities and we’ll also share any updates and changes as they arise. 

Thanks,

Rachel

243 REPLIES 243

diaveldes
Community Member

It won't get accepted as it doesn't meet Bristish Standards. 

coolju
Community Member

Refund Status Scotland?

 

Has anyone actually received their promised refunds from Google?

 

I initially contacted Google on this topic last September, was finally offered full refund on my 9x Nest Protect units last December (not bought from Google store), and returned units to Google with the labels they sent.  In April was told the refund would take another 8 weeks for them to pay.  8 weeks passed.  Chased them, and now told that the refund could take another 13 weeks!!! (unbelievable)  ... or to register on a 3rd party site called Payoneer for refund in another 2 weeks (so I am now going down that route) ... but have zero trust refund will actually materialise.

 

Total incompetence from Google Support.  Curious if anyone has actually received their promised refunds yet, and how long the process took?

 

(I actually posted this question as a separate thread last week, but interestingly it got closed after a day as apparently I didn't respond in time....)

 

 

Kingin
Community Member

Hi ,

Where do you apply for a refund ? Thanks 

Digitaltouch8
Community Member

August 2022 - been doing major house renovation in London, UK and building inspector just told me that my Brand new nest protects are not compliant. So this is not just Scotland anymore. England as well. Real shame that no heat only product available as will now have to buy another brand. I think this applies to England new builds and major renovations. 

Kingin
Community Member

This is not the response we are all were waiting for from a giant company like Google , this is irresponsible action taken by Google ! Instead of providing us with a firmware update or produce a nest with only heat sensor for the kitchen you decided to tell us there's nothing you can do ! You must stop selling it in Scotland and withdraw all the nest protect from the Scottish market with immediate effect ! 

johnt16
Community Member

Whatever you think of the Scottish legislation continuing to sell Protect direct to Scottish addresses or via retailers in Scotland is tantamount to fraudulent misrepresentation. 

Kingin
Community Member

Indeed it is 

Kingin
Community Member

Anything new ? 

Campbell
Community Member

I had a response to the petition I raised with the Scottish Parliament.  They responded with:

The Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee considered your petition on
28 September 2022. At that meeting, the Committee agreed to close your petition
under Rule 15.7 of Standing Orders on the basis that Nest Protect alarms do not
meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard; and the
Scottish Government and COSLA have confirmed that there are no penalties for
non-compliance.

This is enough to satisfy me that the system I have in place is sufficient and safe, and I won't get in any trouble for not having a stand-alone heat sensor in the kitchen.

Kingin
Community Member

What about the house insurance ? Are they consider us compliant ? Or I have to contact my house insurance to find out ? Thanks

Campbell
Community Member

You would need to contact your insurer to be sure. 

However.  This legislation was brought in, primarily to improve smoke detectors by enforcing interlinked alarms within the house, the aim of which is to save lives.  In the unlikely event that your house actually burnt down or was damaged by fire, were your insurer to refuse to cover the cost of damage, they would need to prove that your Nest system was inferior at alerting you of a fire, against any other system with a standalone heat sensor.  Given the Nest system is more likely to trigger than a heat-only sensor, I think they would have a hard time arguing this in court.

Kingin
Community Member

Thank you so much , I am not sure if I will contact my insurer or not because their answer will be you need to get a new alarms lol and I have already sent fortune on them , as me and u know they are really good at what they do best with all the smart extra feature which no other companies offer so far .

 

Thank you so much .

Disalp
Community Member

Insurance companies offer UK policies. So they would need something in their terms and conditions specific to Scottish Law and smoke detectors specifically in my opinion. 

I live in England and pay the same premium as you and have the same terms and conditions.

I would call them for peace of kind but 99.9% positive Insurance policy would treat the English the same as the Scottish 🙂 The law and actual terms and conditions and cover in this instance are probably separate. 

I have my policy with a company called locket and they actually give me  a discount for having nest smoke detectors. Open to all in the UK:)

sbaillie69
Community Member

Does the new generation meet legislation(Scotland)? It claims to have a heat sensor.

https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9251133?hl=en-GBhttps://support.google.com/googlenest/a...

I think the requirement is for a kitchen sensor which is heat-only. The writers of the standard could not understand that a unit could be smart enough to tell the difference between burnt toast and a fire...

Also they don't think a system can be smart enough to ensure batteries are sufficient, it must have sealed batteries. 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-tolerable-standard-guidance/

I think the way Google have treated customers - in particular enabling products that clearly do not meet the standard to remain on sale in Scotland - isn't great, but also that the standard was probably written by a committee of Fire Brigade officials and alarm manufacturers.

New technology could avoid some of the issues with replaceable batteries, potentially making them MORE reliable than a mains-powered alarm with a failed backup battery 🙂

NickB
Community Member

Specifically the Nest does not comply with the BS 5446-2:2003 heat alarm standard required by the regulation. It only complies with the BS EN 14604: 2005 standard for smoke alarms required for the standard.

It is possible for an alarm to comply with BS EN 14604: 2005 and BS 5446-2:2003

Graham63
Community Member
Hi
 
Not sure what happened there but I replied to this last week.
 
In short, I’ve run the checks sporadically for the last few years but not slavishly once a month (as the property is a second home). I ran them again when you emailed me and it was reported all was fine.
 
I’m UK based but am having no success getting any response from Nest Tech dept or customer service. Who would you recommend I contact?
 
Regards
 
Graham

faust82
Community Member

Being the UK, I'm sure there's some form of consumer affairs ombudsman or perhaps even some sort of regulatory body regarding fire protection equipment?

I'm sure some sort of official statement from the government saying these devices are unfit for purpose and a sly note to the papers will light a fire under someone for an official unanswer, just as they do for other notable Protect problems these days.

From the Google community support staff here, you'll only get a link to lodge "feedback", which goes straight into the circular filing cabinet under the desk.

ByteSlinger
Community Member

Could I check, does this same issue also apply to Gen 2 (Wired), and has it not been rectified via software?

I'm in the UK, have bought 11 of these things for my house, and just been told the one fitted to the kitchen can't trigger with smoke detection. Is there no way to turn smoke detection off via the app or anything?

If not, all 11 of them are useless to me, and having pre-emptively opened and activated them all, I can't return them or likely even sell them online. 

I don't understand, it should be such a simple software fix. Just a little tab that you flip and it turns off smoke detection (whilst keeping heat detection on). It could give you a warning when you turn it off that you then have to confirm you understand what it's doing. But there's no reason this issue should have been present for over 2 years!!!

I complained to Google, they asked me to send them my receipts (for 9 units) they sent me return labels and fully refunded me.

BUT Google customer service is truly dreadful - worst customer service I've had in years. I think it took about 9 months from beginning to end and many emails (50+) back and forth.  Seems they totally lack any clear internal processes for dealing with the issue.

Got there in the end and replaced with compliant (for Scotland) FireAngel system.

Good luck..

johnt16
Community Member

The Scottish Government appears to have delegated this decision to a committee, as far as anyone can tell, made up of fire alarm manufacturers. The requirements that came back are standards that are not considered necessary anywhere else in the world - in particular the requirement not to have user-replaceable batteries and no false alarms from smoke detectors in the kitchen. Google dealt with both of those issues by making Nest Protect alarms more sophisticated than anything else on the market, able to avoid false alarms and repeatedly warn the user over the network when batteries required replacement. 

Google are unlikely to revise their products to meet the bespoke requirements of one small market. Particularly when those changes are likely to be considered unnecessary or retrograde by other regulators. 

I don't think we have the battery thing in the UK (that I'm aware of). Besides, the wired Nest's have batteries, but that only act as a backup if the wired power goes down.
The only issue I need to get around is being able to stop ONE of my Nest alarms from triggering from smoke.
This should as I say literally be a simple toggle switch on the app and would take one software engineer an hour to add. Say a day or two to allow for checks and peer review, but on the whole, not a big job to allow for an entire country market.

It is more than simply firmware update. The device would need certified to BS 5446-2:2003. Nest would need to go through that process, assuming the devices heat sensor is capable of passing that certification.

Specifically the Nest does not comply with the BS 5446-2:2003 heat alarm standard required by the regulation for kitchens. It only complies with the BS EN 14604: 2005 standard for smoke alarms required for the standard.

Ah that's so **bleep** annoying! 

Thank you for a direct response though, I appreciate it.

Well, I guess that's a grand I've flushed down the loo. Can't use any of the alarms I bought a year ago, can't return them as I opened and activated them in preparation, and can't sell them online as no one would want a second hand smoke alarm.

Thanks Google.

Contact Google customer service, who will refund you (ours were installed, so had to de-install, so a bit of a pain).... Unfortunately you'll have to be persistent and very patient with google to follow up on their full refund offer.

Oh really? That's huge news if that's a possibility. They've literally been removed from the boxes, turned on and activated, then put straight back in the boxes. 
If they'll take a refund that's amazing. 
The only thing is, I didn't get them all from Google. I only got 7 from Google and got the other 4 from Amazon in a sale. I'm guessing Google wouldn't honor a refund for a Nest purchased elsewhere?

I didn't buy any of my 9 nests from Google (I had bought from screwfix, Amazon etc over about a year period).  I had to provide receipts, serial numbers and pics of the back of each unit.  If I remember correctly they had to be less than 2 years old.  They added up total costs and refunded what I had spent (about £800).  As I say the process was a mess at Google side, I kept having to chase up the status. But that was a year ago, hopefully they have got themselves more organised now. Good luck...

Thanks! I'm on the online chat with them at the moment. They have warned me that the standard return policy is only 15 days but are transferring me over to the next team. I guess we'll see what happens. I'll let you know.

Yes, I think they said that to me initially too.  I had various contradictory emails and communication with google customer support at the time... So, interesting that they still don't seem to have got it sorted....

DanCoco
Community Member

They cant manage to get the product right for the entire world, let alone make this fix. Keep escalating and bumping your support ticket. Be relentless. Hopefully it wont take them 9 months to do anything.

Boro
Community Member

It seems that I am dissatisfied with Google's approach regarding their products, particularly in relation to my experience with the Nest Protect devices. Despite spending a considerable amount of money, approximately £600, on purchasing six of these devices, I have encountered an issue in using them effectively within my open-plan kitchen. This situation has led me to feel that Google does not prioritize the needs and concerns of its customers.

In order to address this issue and make Google reconsider their actions, it is essential for us, as consumers, to collectively voice our concerns. While my individual actions may not have a significant impact, if we unite and express our dissatisfaction by refraining from purchasing Google products and subscriptions, they will undoubtedly feel the financial consequences. As a result, I have personally decided not to buy any further Google products, such as the Pixel phone, and I will also discontinue my YouTube subscription.

By taking a stand together, we can make a difference and compel Google to reconsider their approach. It is important for us to make informed choices as consumers and use our influence to hold companies accountable for their actions.

gbschaadt
Community Member

A flow switch from a sprinkler system that activates the Nest will solve all of the fire marshall's new regulations for the entire state of Maryland for homeowners.  Is this in the works?

Given the responses (and lack of firm answers or updates) I would not hold out that Google will invest anything in getting these to meet new standards anywhere in the world. 

If these new regulations will require you to upgrade or replace equipment to meet a standard in the future, I would start looking for another system, preferably one with active development and a more recent design completion. 

EmersonB
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hello everybody,

 

@gbschaadt, we appreciate your thoughts and ideas about making our products better and more user-friendly. We would recommend you to send your feedback here. We’re working on adding more features and improvements. Stay tuned for updates.

 

Thanks for chiming in, DanCoco.

 

Best,

Emerson

EmersonB
Community Specialist
Community Specialist

Hey there, 

 

It's us again. We wanted to make sure that everything is covered here. We would like to know if you have more questions or concerns? Let us know your update here.

 

Regards,

Emerson

johnt16
Community Member

You get a special mention in this.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/

Though good luck finding the "tolerable standards" document, which, embarrassingly for the Scottish Government, appears to have been archived. 

Kingin
Community Member
  • one heat alarm in the kitchen

 

The above is the main issue we are facing so far in Scotland , Google must produce a heat alarm only or a firmware update that will give us the ability to toggle off other sensors if I am correct .

johnt16
Community Member

Also replaceable batteries in battery-only alarms. (Wired alarms with backup batteries are allowed I think.)

I'm not a specialist in the field, but it's why I wonder if the committee defining the regulations was  dominated by incumbent alarm manufacturers. Seems to me that having a system with networked smart monitoring that won't allow the user to be unaware that batteries need replacing, with photo-electric detectors rather than ionising radiation detectors, is possibly safer in the long term. But that configuration is banned in Scotland. 

 

Kingin
Community Member

Yep, mine are wired , so far I didn't change mine as I paid a fortune to get them fitted and so on , but it's nice to see Google taking a step and sorting it out instead of ignoring us.