Heat Detectors to meet new legislation

[Theswallowspd]

Issue on the agenda for ever) but any advances with producing a heat detector to meet regulations?

I currently have 3 nest smoke alarms and was intending to purchase 5 more including a single heat detector but I've found that Nest not currently provide a Heat Only detector which links into the other detectors which means that their product does not meet the new legislation in Scotland. The following link explains the legislation in more detail.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/

Although it was expected this law would come into force earlier this year in February 2021, because of the Covid pandemic, it has been delayed to 2022. Yet current customers have had no contact from this company to say they will not be able to meet the new rules until they can produce a suitable product. 

I also note that their products are being sold through various outlets without any warning that they will not meet the delayed new safety law when it is implemented in a few months time. I hope this will not result in a terrible accident in future because of a lack of willingness on their part to advise people about this matter.

Does anyone know if and when Nest intends to provide a suitable heat detector which will satisfy the new safety law and if not, will they notify current and any future customers that they will not be able to use their product to satisfy the new legislation and are better looking for another supplier?

[alastairr]

I am a supporter of the Nest family of products however I am pisssed that the Smoke/heat alarm does not meet current Scottish Gov legislation. It appears the legislatuion is well thought out so a product like Nest Smoke and heat alarms are deficient here and no wornings given when purchased that these products do not meet the requirements.

[GarrettDS]

Hey there, 

Thanks for writing into us about this, I definitely understand the concerns on this and am happy to review this. I appreciate you bringing this to our attention and I'm happy to pass this along to our team. 

We definitely want to improve and take any feedback into account as well. 

Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. 

Best regards, 
Garrett DS

[neeb]

Google, this was "brought to your attention" ages ago - when are you going to make nest protect complaint with the law?

[R4dbridge]

agreed, this is a reoccurring issue across many posts. The standard answers from 'Community Members'  is becoming a little tired. I have started buying smart products from other providers. Its a real shame as Nest has been by far the best range of products for me. A simple re-engineer of the Nest Protect and a software update would resolve this and the whole Scotland UK and US audience would be very pleased. Is there actually any real update from the dev team in google yet?

[Dougie]

Google have been advised about this for 2 years now and we're still getting the same stock answer:-

"I appreciate you bringing this to our attention and I'm happy to pass this along to our team." 

[Theswallowspd]

Sorry GarrettDS, but your team needs a kick up the proverbial as they have, according to the amount of previous postings, been sitting on this for over a year now. Unless I hear from your organisation soon I will be taking this to the UK media to request they do what your company's should be doing and say your products is not fit for purpose. There are many other UK companies with products which confirm to the new legislation and I advise people to consider these. 

[neeb]

Maybe someone should do a YouTube video on this, explaining exactly why the Nest system isn't compliant with the new legislation and how Google have consistently ignored feedback while continuing to market the products. Another avenue would be the Consumer Association (Which? magazine). I'm a member, so I'll contact them about it.

[coolju]

I originally bought into the Nest Protect System because  'Which?' awarded it a 'best buy', not sure if it still is? 

[Dougie]

Apparently BBC Rip off Britain programme is looking into this.

[firebits74]

So, how was I able to buy three of these just last month without any warning from Google?  I thought I was buying the best option for my house by adding to the existing Google Nest, but now I have four of them which I shall now have to replace.  

I expect I will be refunded for this?

[NickieL]

Garrett,

We are renovating our home in Massachusetts and the state requires a heat sensor in the garage to tie into the existing nest smoke detectors - what do you suggest we do to comply?

Nickie L.

[Robbo1975]

This needs to be looked at by google ? Are there any plans to release a compliant heat detector that will meet the new legislation in the UK. I have 4 detectors in my home and the system is now redundant as there is no compliant  interlinked heat detector that will to make the system compliant to the new regulations.

it clearly states on the government website link above that nest is not compliant due to the heat detector not meeting British standard. Can google come out with a statement on this and their intention.

Thanks 

[GarrettDS]

Hi everyone, 

Thank you all for your feedback and we appreciate the responses. You can find an official update here.

Best regards, 
Garrett DS

[neeb]

Google now have only 4 months to provide us with products that will make our nest protect systems compliant with the law.

[coolju]

I have just gone around in circles with Google Nest Support on this same topic, and they couldn't offer any solution at all!!  Very frustrated,

We have 9x Google Nest Protects (wired) installed, so was quite an investment!!  I've just been getting a new home insurance quote and insurers asked if we were compliant with new legislation.  So this is a really serious issue that Google needs to solve ASAP.   I'm really stuck what to do now.    I really don't want to remove them all and replace - that would be such a waste (& expensive!!!).

[Rossmof]

Adding my frustration to this situation. I went with Nest for my house precisely because they were interlinked with one another, but now I find out I’m going to need to replace my system as there is no compatible heat sensor. Google really needs to address this issue and/or stop selling in the U.K. until compliant systems are available.

[sbaillie69]

I too have not that long ago invested in Nest - to find out they are not compliant is beyond belief!   Are there any plans to bring out compliant products or do we have to completely bin everything?  

[jss32]

Hello google!

To summarise:

• You have known since early 2020 (on the old forum) that Protect will soon not be compliant with Scottish building regs because a heat ONLY detector is needed in kitchens (to detect fires where they are most likely to occur but without false positives). Apparently similar for some parts of Canada and garages in the US.
• You have never given anything but a stock response about passing it to the team.
• The Protect already has a heat sensor in the hardware, so all we need is a firmware update for use in a kitchen e.g. switch off the smoke sensor and configure the heat sensor limit appropriately.
• If you don’t do this, then all products in Scotland will need to be binned and you will make zero new sales.
• You are still selling a product that you KNOW will be non-compliant very soon (you know, because we’ve told you) and would likely have to refund recent purchasers once trading standards get involved, because you have acted unfairly.

It will be much easier to provide the firmware upgrade than face the consequences of not doing.

Please reply with a date for compliance or a definite statement that you will not be compliant so we can bin your products. Please do not give any answers about understanding or referring it elsewhere.

Thanks in advance.

[neeb]

As Google continues to ignore this issue, we will just have to keep bringing it up until they are forced to address it.

Nest protect continues to be sold and marketed in Scotland, despite not conforming to the latest regulations that will apply to all homes, without exception, from February next year.

See the numerous posts on this that Google is still ignoring, for example:

https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Heat-Detectors-to-meet-new-legislation/m-p/10296...

https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Nest-Protect-does-not-meet-the-standards-being-i...

[Maxx]

This is completely unacceptable from any company to continue to sell products that will not comply with regulations.

Can the latest Nest 2nd Gen Smoke + CO Alarms be recycled or are they safe just to dispose of in the bin? 

[DJG]

Just fitted a new nest thermostat and was going to fit all new smoke detectors and heat detector but now see they do not conform to British Standard (BS 5839-6:2019) which is needed for the new Scottish reg's coming into force 2022. Will nest be launching a new heat detector or will i need to buy 6 new FireAngel products?

[neilmacleod]

Come February 2022 the law in Scotland is changing to require an interlinked heat sensor to be fitted in the kitchen and smoke detectors in all living areas. Having invested close on £500 on 5 Nest Protect smoke detectors I now discover that I will have to remove them all and replace with a system that includes a heat sensor.  I am unsure if the law extends to the whole of the UK but buyers need to be aware that all Nest Protect smoke detectors will be unlawful in Scotland as there is no interlinked heat sensor that can be installed in a kitchen. At the very least Nest need to make this clear in their advertising. Come on Nest you should do better.

[Ashepherdson]

While I understand your annoyance , you need to realize that this isn't "Nest needs to do better", this is a building code that changed and the old products will no longer be allowed. 

SAYING THIS - I do not live in Scotland, I live in Canada, and the rules here are very clear.  New building codes only affect New construction, or substantial renovations.  Old homes can stay with the older building codes.  Is that the case in Scotland?

[neilmacleod]

The law in Scotland requires all properties regardless of age to have interlinked heat and smoke detector. The absence of a Nest heat sensor has long been a criticism and now all property owners in Scotland who have invested in Nest Protect products must now have them removed. I stand by my original post.

[Ashepherdson]

Did some googling, I think both sides are in the wrong here.   Nest \ Google should create a "Heat Only" alarm product for areas that have this issue such as Scotland.  The Scottish government shouldnt have made such a stupid law, as Nest Protects DO have heat alarms, but the issue is the kitchen must be Heat ONLY.. which makes no sense.  

You aren't wrong, but I think the blame is 50/50 here(Google \ Scotland).  Sad thing is, coming from a smaller country (population wise) myself (Canada), our laws and rules tend to get ignored , as our base of buyers is much smaller than the rest of the world.  

[neilmacleod]

I believe the whole of the UK may follow suit so that is a major market for Nest. As for the law being stupid the current Nest Protect cannot be installed in a kitchen so quite reasonably any fire in there will spread before being detected. I can see the logic in the new legislation requiring a heat sensor located in the kitchen linked to smoke detectors elsewhere in the house.

[Ashepherdson]

What I mean is, If you have a Nest Protect in your kitchen, it would be interlocked, and would signal to the rest of the house.  The stupid part is not the law in general, but the fact that the kitchen must be Heat ONLY.. as the Nest Protects do have heat sensors, and would qualify if the law said "Heat detector (at minimum) in kitchen interlocked with rest of house", instead of "Heat detector only" 

[xyvev]

The new regulations were put in place partly because of the Grenfell Tower fire in London which caused 72 people to pass away and 70 others to be injured, either during or after the fire which burned for around 60 hours. The "heat only" part of the legislation is to reduce false alarms by disallowing the use of smoke detectors in kitchens, where smoke may appear normally, causing some people to silence or outright disable the alarm which could create dangerous situations.

I don't agree with the way it's implemented, but it makes sense. By my understanding, Google could probably implement a heat only feature in a software update. According to the product specs, Nest Protects do have temperature sensors although I don't know the way they're configured.

It's up to Google to deal with it, either by the way of a software update, different product or just outright not offering it in Scotland. Until then, they legally can't be used in Scotland past February 2022.

[neilmacleod]

We don't install smoke detectors in our kitchens over here (in general they are probably smaller than in Canada) Even the toaster sets them off so its heat sensors only and there are many other companies that sell interlinked heat and smoke detectors, so in Scotland the Nest products will be redundant. Its a shame but the reality is that we all face dumping them.

[GarrettDS]

Hi everyone, 

Thank you all for your feedback and we appreciate the responses. You can find an official update here.

Best regards, 
Garrett DS

[Valo]

I'm glad I'm not the only person  who is seriously annoyed by this situation. I have 2x Nest Protect Gen 2 hardwired (1x Hall and 1x Kitchen). The Protect in the Hall is mounted in centrally in the middle of my home (single storey bungalow) and my Protect in the Kitchen at the far end, closer to my internal door to my Garage where my Gas Boiler is located, giving me fire/smoke warning in my Kitchen and CO warning from my Garage.

I've had them for several years in which they've both worked flawlessly since their installation. I'm also now left with no option but to remove them as well as they don't meet the new requirements as this will effect my home insurance policies.

I'm concerned that Google Nest haven't issued a statement on this situation as it's been mentioned already both the hardwired and battery versions of the Protect are still available for sale in Scotland both of which will be Illegal come February 2022 as any batteries within a smoke alarm must be sealed and non-user replaceable.

[FRAZSCOT]

I agree, I've spent all morning doing google searches, and what I discovered were 10's of separate posts since 2019 on google/nest forums and reddit of people asking about heat detectors and in all cases a moderator would close the thread stating we appreciate your feedback and will pass this onto our team. End of discussion.

Regardless of arguments being made, the silence from nest/google on providing clarity over a product or compatibility for heat detectors for coming on 3years is staggering to me. There lacks engagement or genuine interest from them on an issue now facing many in the UK who like their nest protects but are now facing a changing regulatory reequipments and a need for linked heat detector in kitchen.

For me I've 4x Nest Protect Gen2 (alongside other Nest products) and now face the prospect of wasted money and a split tech eco system. Incredibly disappointed we've heard nothing for nest on this for years.

[FRAZSCOT]

So to those reading the forum, given Google/Nests terrible scripted responses up to this point, and general lack of evidence to show they actually respond to customers - what are the chances do you think of this being resolved in time (or at all)? I'd rather not wait until 5mins to midnight before having a lot of DIY.

[ZombieBoy]

What’s equally poor, is that they keep selling them to people in the regions where their product is about to be legally obsolete. My first Nest Protect expired a month ago and I blindly replaced it. Now I’m reading about all this and I’m not happy. The Nest products showed so much promise pre-Google acquisition. The lack of progress, and the lack of transparent dialogue for what is a premium product is very disappointing.  

now I guess I’ll have to ditch three Protects, and look for a replacement solution. Add to the fact I have 4 Cams, the solution is looking like a Betamax product for me, and switching entirely over to Alexa compatible ecosystem seems to be the sensible choice.

[Sonny_1980]

Another user here that invested in 2 Nest Protect a couple of years ago and now I will have to remove them because of this stupid law. In any case, even if Nest launches a new product that has only a heat sensor alarm, my understanding of the law is the current Nest Protect would NOT be compliant because it requires the smoke alarms to be interlinked by radio frequency and I believe the Nest Protect do not communicate with each other by radio frequency, am I wrong?

[FRAZSCOT]

Yeah that's wrong, and the scottish gov website was updated to address that, the other products are all 100% fine, they run on their own mesh network, not home wireless. All we need is a compatible heat detector for kitchen and it would sort this problem.

[Sonny_1980]

"Both types of alarm are interlinked by radio frequency and do not need WiFi." is still showing on the government website.

[ZombieBoy]

I thought the RF/Wifi stipulation had been removed.  But there is a requirement for tamperproof battery, and the battery edition isn't. Not sure how this is implemented though.

[Campbell]

I don’t understand this heat only requirement for the kitchen at all. I installed Nest Protects in my property when they first came out. I had two Gen 1 Protects in the kitchen (because of a beam in the ceiling). This system has worked fine for 5 years with less false alarms than I can count on one hand, and only ever when there has been heavy smoke eg from fat burning in the grill. I can’t see why the Nest system shouldn’t be sufficient so long as the customer is happy to install one in the kitchen and put up with any false alarms. And there wouldn’t be any false alarms in an empty house or at night, only when people are awake.

Personally, I’ve just spent a lot of money recently replacing my whole system with Gen 2 Protects, as the Gen 1s expired. So to find out after doing so that they won’t conform doesn’t exactly please me.

Here’s a thought - couldn’t Nest just disable all except the heat sensor in an existing device, with a software update? That way, if you mark a Protect as being in the kitchen, it automatically becomes a heat only sensor.

Perhaps we should create petition to the Scottish Government to change their stance on this?