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Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

RachelC
Community Manager (Admin)
Community Manager (Admin)

Hey everyone, 

I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and smoke alarms. Nest Protect cannot function as a heat alarm due to specific hardware and functional requirements of those devices. So, beginning February 2022,  Nest Protects will not meet these new requirements due lack of interconnection with a compatible heat alarm. 

At this time, there are no current plans to produce a heat alarm and we do understand this is not ideal for many of our Scottish customers, but you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm as an addition to your interconnected system. We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

We ask that you continue to refer to the guidance of your fire and local authorities and we’ll also share any updates and changes as they arise. 

Thanks,

Rachel

59 REPLIES 59

AFU
Community Member

My understanding is that yes, in most cases it doesn't comply as it's not a EN rated heat alarm. However, the regulations and guidance clearly state in the case of open plan:

Where a dwelling has an open plan layout, the open plan area will also be used as a circulation space (which could include a stair and landing). The location and siting of smoke alarms and heat detectors should follow both the guidance above and in Clause 2.11.7 to determine the appropriate number of alarms.

Where the access room is a kitchen, the type of detector should be carefully considered to reduce the likelihood of false alarms.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/2-fire/211-communication/

I'm 100% not saying "I'm right" here, I just think that for our specific case it could be argued that we are compliant. We've had 1 false alarm in the open plan in 2 years, and it was pretty smokey! 

 

Also, from here:

https://www.mygov.scot/home-fire-safety

Examples

If you live in a one bedroom flat, you will need two smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

A 3 bedroom, 2 storey house will need 3 smoke alarms and one heat alarm. 

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have one alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm.

Whatever the size your home, if you have a carbon fuelled appliance like a boiler, you will also need a carbon monoxide detector.

Again, should, not must. Other bits of guidance clearly state that the choice of alarm should reflect the lowest risk of false alarm. We have a small kitchen in a big open plan area, I want that to be a smoke alarm, not a heat alarm as it would need to be quite a fire before the heat alarm detected it.

Maxx
Community Member

It clearly says need...

What you need to do

If you are a homeowner, it's your responsibility to make sure your home meets the new fire alarms standard.

By February 2022 every home will need to have:

  • 1 smoke alarm in the room you spend most of the day, usually your living room
  • 1 smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings
  • 1 heat alarm in the kitchen

All smoke and heat alarms should be mounted on the ceiling and be interlinked.

NickB
Community Member

This page https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/ states:
"Please note that the Nest Protect System will not meet the standard. This is because they do not meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard. British Standard (BS 5839-6:2019) states that only heat alarms should be installed in kitchens."

I'm guessing you're assuming that use of the word 'should' instead of 'must' means you are ok?
Given that both the Scottish Government and Nest themselves have gone to lengths to specifically identify the Nest Protect as not meeting the standard required by the upcoming new law, that seems a tenuous assumption at best. It'll be interesting what further information you get in reply from the Scottish Government to your email....

AFU
Community Member

@NickB wrote:

This page https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/ states:
"Please note that the Nest Protect System will not meet the standard. This is because they do not meet the requirements for a heat alarm under the relevant British Standard. British Standard (BS 5839-6:2019) states that only heat alarms should be installed in kitchens."

I'm guessing you're assuming that use of the word 'should' instead of 'must' means you are ok?
Given that both the Scottish Government and Nest themselves have gone to lengths to specifically identify the Nest Protect as not meeting the standard required by the new the law, that seems a tentative assumption at best. It'll be interesting what further information you'll get from the Scottish Government to your email....


Precisely. We have building warrant ongoing, so we'll see if that gets approved. If so, then all good.

NickB
Community Member

It's worth noting that above law does not come in to effect until February 2022, though at that point it applies to all homes, not just new/modified homes.

AFU
Community Member

True, but if we get the nod from building warrant I can't see how it could not then be deemed compliant? Certainly as far as insurance is concerned. 

NickB
Community Member

The building warrant will relate only to current law.
The new law, come February, is retroactive and applies to all homes, not just newly built or those having modifications done.

For example my home with 4 wired Nest alarms may comply with current laws, but come February if the above statement from Nest and that Scottish Government website are true then it will no longer be and I will need to replace Nest alarms with a compliant system.

Ballsy
Community Member

I've seen where you get the "should" but it says this:

 

"What you need to do

If you are a homeowner, it's your responsibility to make sure your home meets the new fire alarms standard.

 

By February 2022 every home will need to have:

 

one smoke alarm in the room you spend most of the day, usually your living room

one smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings

one heat alarm in the kitchen

All smoke and heat alarms should be mounted on the ceiling and be interlinked.

 

If you have a carbon-fuelled appliance, like a boiler, fire, heater or flue you must also have a carbon monoxide detector. This does not need to be linked to the fire alarms. "

AFU
Community Member

If you have an open plan living room and kitchen you only need to have one alarm in this space and it should be a heat alarm

Should, not must. Yes, it's very tenuous, but the law is always tested on these minutiae. 

 

Ballsy
Community Member

I think you're holding onto some sort of false hope bud, "should" implies obligation.

 

The alarms must meet "BS" standards which the nest products don't 🤷🏻‍♂️, even Nest themselves have said their products don't meet this. Regards of your building warrant getting "the nod" your home won't be insured properly or meet the new Scottish legislation.

AFU
Community Member

Quite possibly false hope...

But, Nest Protect is compliant as a smoke alarm, just not a heat detector: 

Google Nest Protect has been tested to comply with certification standards in various regions and countries including the United States, Canada, the European Union, the United Kingdom and Australia.

The reliability of your smoke and carbon monoxide alarm is critical to your safety. Certification is a rigorous process, and Protect’s specifications were filed with leading safety certification agencies.

Nest Protect complies with the following smoke and carbon monoxide alarm standards:

  • UL 2034, 4th edition – 'Single and multiple station carbon monoxide alarms'
  • UL 217, 8th edition – 'Smoke alarms'
  • CSA 6.19-17 – 'Residential carbon monoxide alarming devices'
  • CAN/ULC-S531-14 – 'Standard for smoke alarms'
  • EN-14604:2005 – 'Smoke alarm devices'
  • EN-50291-1:2018 – 'Electrical apparatus for the detection of carbon monoxide in domestic premises'
  • AS 3786-2014 – 'Smoke alarms using scattered light, transmitted light or ionisation'

NickB
Community Member

The reason they will not comply with the new law come February is that they do not comply with BS 5839-6:2019, as stated by both Nest themselves and the Scottish Government.

diaveldes
Community Member

Unfortunately unless someone lives in a house without a kitchen (don't know of any personally) then it is no use in Scotland. 

AFU
Community Member

No response yet from the Scottish Government, but our insurance has confirmed they don't care and will still cover us, so I'm not throwing them out yet. 

ZombieBoy
Community Member

Given that we're all here because Nest Smoke Detectors aren't fit for purpose, and were an utter waste of money, what are people looking at as a replacement for them? I certainly don't want to be burned a second time, and I think Google owe us an opportunity to discuss how we can legally protect our homes after buying Nest.

Any recommendations?

We can only wish. Google won’t do sh*t

Tinsoldier82
Community Member

Ridiculous as the owner of 7 nest protects I am absolutely outraged

GeoffC
Community Member

mmm.

 

Good job my nest protects have started to refuse to connect to my router, and I ended up on googlenest looking for a solution.

Only to discover I'm wasting my time!

As someone else has asked, what options do we have in replacement?  I have 10 units destined to become ceiling lights, if only they were powerful enough to allow me to use them jnstead of the ceiling lights.

billsomervail
Community Member

I knew about this problem a year ago, but was not worried as discussions suggested that Nest would:-

1) produce a heat detecter for Nest 

2) activate the suposed Heat dection unit in Nest Protect

3) recomend a Nest compatible Heat Dection unit

It appears that none of these options have been acted upon.

There have only been suggestions that homes using Nest Protect in Scotland will be risking  making their home insurance null and void in evemt of a fire.

Very sad if you live in Scotland with an out of touch Goverment and an in flexible Heat and Smoke alarm supplier.

If anyone can resolve this please help, dont really want to replace my Nest System, but dont want to have to run two systems either.

Regards

 

Bill Somervail

 

 

coolju
Community Member

Hi Google Nest Protect owners in Scotland,

Has anyone actually had any luck with Google Customer Support on this topic? - I contacted them as recommended above by the Community Manager 'RachelC'.

I am still going around in circles with support several months later.

Google Support finally asked me to send my receipts and serial numbers last month for the 9x Nest Protects we own.  As they said they finally DID have a process in place to refund customers.  I immediately sent them.

They then replied back, after chasing, that they actually DIDN'T have a process in place, and had no solution.

Since then they haven't replied to my requests for an update (last reply was 12 days ago).

I really find the way Google is treating Scottish customers on this topic absolutely appalling.  I can't remember the last time I had such poor poor service.

There also seems no way to escalate this issue in Google - unless anyone knows?

A very very frustrated customer...