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Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

RachelC
Googler

Hey everyone, 

I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and smoke alarms. Nest Protect cannot function as a heat alarm due to specific hardware and functional requirements of those devices. So, beginning February 2022,  Nest Protects will not meet these new requirements due lack of interconnection with a compatible heat alarm. 

At this time, there are no current plans to produce a heat alarm and we do understand this is not ideal for many of our Scottish customers, but you can still use your Nest Protect as a smoke and carbon monoxide alarm as an addition to your interconnected system. We understand these options may not be suitable for everyone so we ask if you have any additional questions around next steps for your Nest Protect, you can contact support to get additional details.

We ask that you continue to refer to the guidance of your fire and local authorities and we’ll also share any updates and changes as they arise. 

Thanks,

Rachel

195 REPLIES 195

NickB
Community Member

Nest alarms to not interconnect with each other using wifi via a home router, that is just for setup and remote notification. They use "Weave" to interconnect which is based on IEEE 802.15.4 and is sort of like "ZigBee".
See my replies earlier in this thread: https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Updates-on-Nest-Protect-and-pending-Scottish-leg...
https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Updates-on-Nest-Protect-and-pending-Scottish-leg...




GeoffC
Community Member

Nest Fire Alarms Are Wi-Fi Interlinked

Google Nest Protect system can be wirelessly interlinked to create a safe circuit around your home, by fitting different Nest Smoke alarms units in different areas. However, this does not comply with the Scottish Legislation 2022 as the wireless fire alarms should connect through an internal circuit of radio-frequencies, while Nest Smoke Alarms use the Wi-Fi of your home.

In case there is a blaze in your home which starts from your router, the Nest Smoke Alarms would not be able to communicate the danger as the Wi-Fi communication could be faulty.

 

That's the section I  was referring to. Perhaps Fireguard have it wrong?

NickB
Community Member

Yes, I believe that Fireguard have that wrong. Nest protect devices interconnect with each other using "Weave" IEEE 802.15.4 RF, not Wi-fi. So in that regard they do comply with the legislation.

Quoting from https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9232615?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-nest-protects-connect-with-e...

 

Nest Protects connect wirelessly using a Nest-developed protocol called Weave that lets Nest Protects communicate with one another safely and securely without an active Wi-Fi connection.

Weave uses 802.15.4 and Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n to create reliable, flexible, secure and low-power communication between Protects.

You can think of the 802.11b/g/n protocol as the connection that communicates with the outside world and performs tasks like automatically updating Nest Protect software or allowing you to get mobile notifications on your phone. You can think of the 802.15.4 protocol as the low-power connection that lets Nest Protects communicate with each other.

This means your Protects can continue to talk to one another, and can let you know when smoke or carbon monoxide is detected in other parts of the home, even if your Wi-Fi network goes down.

 

That they do not have a heat only alarm, and having a user replaceable battery model, is a different matter, and don't comply with the legislation.

JoeMcDougall
Community Member

Absolutely appalled by this announcement. 

Aside from the "two fingers" to Scottish users, and no consideration to English rules around newbuilds, ALL your customers would be safer with this feature.

Google just don't care.

I'm beyond cross at the corporate disregard for safety.

I don't think the safety is being jeopardised by using Nest Protect, as the only issue is there is an additional smoke alarm in a kitchen which may potentially cause a nuisance to the homeowner, personally I want a smoke alarm in my kitchen as my children's bedrooms are above and the smoke alarm may give me more time should there ever be a fire, of there is any other known safety issue then building standards would have highlighted that as a reason for stating it is in non compliance, also the BS standards which they have used is just recommendations, I can see why this may be a nuisance in a central fire alarm system in a block of flats, but not one family home. 

What I understand is a smoke alarm is the first indicator should a fire be starting or you are burning your toast (either way I'd like to know) and a heat alarm tells you your house is on fire.

Madmax
Community Member

This is very poor from a company like google but at least i am within the 14 days to return my set of nest alarms.

This also has an impact on buying any more google products in the future.

GeoffC
Community Member

I notice the Nest Protect is still a best buy according to Which. At least I've not noticed any 'warning' on its drawbacks.

tomrup
Community Member

coolju
Community Member

In relation to the 'Which?' consumer association article on this topic, where Google promises refunds, has anybody actually received a refund from Google?

I have been liaising now with Google Support on this topic since Sept 2021 (when I first learnt of this compliance issue), first for a product solution, then in Nov 2021 they finally offered a refund (for 9 units) as their only solution.  I then bought a compliant FireAngel Pro system at additional expense to replace the Google Nest Protect system.

I have sent (as per each of Goggle Support's requests) ALL receipts, serial numbers, photos of serial numbers on units, and re-activated a Gpay account for the refund.

Finally on the 7th Jan 2022 I received an email to say that my refund/return had been finally approved - Great!!

Then today (19th Jan 2022) I received another email saying:

"we regret to inform you that we can no longer proceed with it. We can only process refunds for those Nest Protects that were purchased on Google Store"

WTF!! (excuse my language).  The Google Customer Support communication is an absolute mess.  I have wasted so much time on this going around in circles.

Anyway:

1 - Has anyone actually had any success with promised Google Nest Protect refunds?

2 - Does anyone know how to escalate this in Google, as Google Support is completely incompetent.

They've already agreed to it in writing and you've taken action on that basis.

Send a Letter Before Action by register post to their UK HQ.

Thanks, good idea.  Will do.

billsomervail
Community Member

Hi Rachel,

I bought 6 Nest Protects in 2020 to add to my Nest Thermostat, Nest Cameras and Nest Aware system and to be ready for Scottish Law Changes due in Feb2021. Fortunately I am in touch with circumstances and realised they were not going to be compliant so didn't fit them. When the law changes were delayed for a year I expected Google to release a compliant Heat Detector for Kitchens. This is obvoiusly not going to happen. I would like to know why not, is Scottish market just to small for Google?

If I decide on a competitor for my heat and smoke detection, I guess I will have to gradually replace Google, Cameras and Google Thermostat and Google Aware if I want one system and one App.

I work in ECO market mak a lot of recomendations, i am extremely disappointed that I will have to stop recomending Googe.   

 Please le me know if Google is going to allow a heat detector to be intergrated before Feb 2022.

 

Regards

Bill Somervail 

DeeBee
Community Member

I contacted Nest on 30 May 2018 about the fact that their devices will not be compliant in Scotland, to which I got this reply (which I passed to the Scottish Government).

"I am sorry that at the moment the Nest Protect Smoke + CO Alarm does not comply with all the rules and regulation in Scotland. I have already forwarded your feedback to the team responsible and can assure you that it will be taken into account for future improvements of our products. I hope that this will be resolved soon."

That was over three and a half years ago, and nothing has been done in that time.

Poor.

Maxx
Community Member

This is the real problem!

We have all known for years, and Google have not even tried to to make Nest products compliant.

LNP459
Community Member

I suspect that the word interconnect is the key here. Nest Protect is interconnected with each other and also with my phone giving alerts to me. If I install a heat detector which also connects with my phone, then they are all interconnected. Does Nest intend to allow IFTTT connectivity?

DrDreMYI
Community Member

Sadly IFTTT wouldn’t be enough as it requires connectivity and the rules require local inter connectivity… so the weave protocol.  I can’t see this happening.

LNP459
Community Member

If Nest interconnects both within itself and also with my phone to provide an alert, then if I add a standalone heat detector which also connects to my phone, surely they are all interconnected through the phone? 

Does Nest intend to permit IFTTT connectivity?

IFTTT would require Internet connectivity. Think you'd have to link them by whatever the use for direct connection in order to be compliant.

Tks for reply. Not sure legislation is specific on means of interconnectivity?

You are correct! I'm really surprised that the means isn't specified.

 

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2019/02/fir...

"16.11. Interlinked: Interconnected alarms which communicate with each other and form an integrated system of protection in the home, so that when one alarm detects a fire, all alarms operate simultaneously. Alarms can be interlinked via wires (hardwired) or wirelessly (by radio communication). Where adding to an existing hardwired system, care should be taken to ensure that all alarms are interlinked, with all alarms sounding when any one device is activated."

I guess that since wifi is radio, it complies.

Personally I'd not be happy with a solution requiring the Internet, or a wifi access point. I'd only be happy with devices that are connected through a peer to peer system such as Zigbee.

There are standard numbers listed for each component, so those would need to comply. 

I'm really surprised the legislation doesn't clarify what they mean by "radio".

 

I think the purpose of the legislation is to demand direct connectivity between the devices without the need for critical 3rd party components like access points snd routers, rather than to dictate an actual protocol. After all, other devices exist which do this already …. It’s just that Google won’t add the missing piece of the puzzle.

What the government has done is right by not unnecessarily dictating a protocol.

DrDreMYI
Community Member

From the legislation;

Interlink: Smoke and heat alarms must either be interlinked by cable or by wireless radio-frequency interlink.

I personally also wouldn’t want to depend on my internet connection, a 3rd party cloud services provider and 109% operational end to rnd events during to get my alarms off. That’s a pop at Google, not anyone here. I know everyone here wants this fine right by Google… not to fake the rules.

 

but let’s face it… it’s too late for Google to do anything but count their money. I for one will not knowingly put a penny in their pockets again.

They've been quite clear that they don't give a **bleep**.

Not about complying with the law in Scotland.

Not even complying in England (these regs are similar to English new build and major renovation requirements)

Not about the fact these rules bring actual safety benefits, and are the right thing to do.

They just wanted to make spy devices masquerading as safety equipment.

I feel so foolish for trusting them in the first place. I spent nearly a grand getting Nest across the house.

What was I thinking? Trusting an advertising company with my safety.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/12/new-scottish-smoke-and-heat-alarm-laws-everything-you-need-to-k...

In the above Which say that Google have said that you can return Nest Protect units that were bought in the last 3 years

MRTMoe
Community Member

Bought my 8 nest protects 4 years ago so they’re not even halfway through their lifespan and yet are useless in relation to the upcoming law 😞

GeoffC
Community Member

Indeed. Mine (9) are 4-5 years old.

Changed batteries only in 2 of them in that time.

Spawned
Community Member

Welcome to 2022!

 

As it seems, we still have no answer from Google on what are the next steps for people stuck with 3+ Nest Protect devices that are no longer in compliance with the new regulations. Hard to say, but I have never been let down by Google and to be honest, I can't blame them for this situation this time. Regulations changed and we are together in this without clear solution. I'm not sure how viable it is for Google to manufacture heat detector only variation of Nest Protect, unless more countries follow the suit with the new regulations in Scotland. Gutted, as I love all the features of Google products, especially having them linked to Hassio.

Another country has - these are a requirement of new build and significant refurbishment in England.

DeeBee
Community Member

I informed Nest in May 2018 that their device wouldn't be compliant, and probably somebody informed them before me.

As per my post above, as per Which you can return your Nest Protect devices for a refund.

As for Nest / Google not having a compliant heat detector then the new regulations in Scotland & England were brought in for a reason, and Google Protect first and foremost should protect people, not just look good, link well into a smart home, and provide sizeable profits.

There's also the issue that you can remove the battery from the battery version of the product, and this is a big failing in smoke/heat/CO detectors. Not everybody wants, or can, run wires throughout their house.

NickB
Community Member

I contacted Google about the refund mentioned in the Which article and got the following reply:

 

Nick: So, is the information in the Which article about devices less than 3 years old being refunded correct? Or is that also limited to only devices bought direct from Google?

 

Google Support: I'm sorry but I can't comment about the post. The refund of the Nest Protects are covered for devices shipped through Google Store only. 

 

So it appears if your device was bought from an other retailer (Amazon, John Lewis, etc) or is more than 3 years old, no refund is available. 😞

GeoffC
Community Member

It would be interesting to read how Amazon / JL would tackle this topic on refunds.

 

I intend keeping mine they're over 4 years old and still work and more informative then alternatives. Enhanced by a second system I'm compliant.

GavCo
Community Member

The response from google on this has been very disappointing and they have ruined the Nest product line since taking it over. Won't be going anywhere near future Made by Google products. 

NickB
Community Member

As best I can tell Google will refund customers with devices bought direct from them within the last 3 years, but all other customers (those that have devices older than 3 years or bought from some other retailer) they have no solution for and have effectively abandoned! 😞

Maxx
Community Member

My device is less than 3 years old and bought from B&Q so it sounds like its going to landfill, but hopefully will have decomposed in the next 500 years 👍

Doggydoggen
Community Member

Im from Sweden and bought this nest protect yesterday, i will now return it, i want a heat sensing in my garage and it seams like nest is not the brand to buy, do you guys av other options on other brands to buy?

Aico, FireAngel

GordonARussell
Community Member

Can still use then as a addition to interconnected system !!!How that work there not compliant!!!!!

 

Springbank33
Community Member

Probably pointless, but I just want to note my annoyance at Google’s stance on this.

Swayze88
Community Member

For googles marketing and sales people. I only have 1 Google smoke detector (thankfully) now due to the new regulations I have just purchased 5 new smoke alarms, 1 heat detector and 2 CO2 alarms. If googles devices had been compliant these would have all been made by Google. I'm sure these devices are only a fraction of a percent for googles profits, but It seems like a bit of an oversight considering new purchases are essentially mandatory in Scotland at the moment.

johnt16
Community Member

Next steps?

Your battery alarms do not comply with the requirement for sealed batteries. Next step? Put them in the bin after new alarms are installed. 

None of your alarms can be interlinked with a heat-only alarm in the kitchen. Next step? Put them all in the bin after new interlinked alarms are installed. 

When are you going to act to prevent fraudulent sales of your alarms to customers in Scotland, or are you just happy to continue to take people's money under false pretences for alarms that do not meet the standard?